View Full Version : Oh I miss Pride so much!
smoothsake
07-02-2010, 06:29 PM
Very informative website on the 1st Pride event 10 years ago, from the guys at ESPN and Sherdog.
http://espn.go.com/mma/features/prideandglory
I must say that the UFC sucks bad. Strikeforce isn't even on the radar. American MMA in general is just boooring. Dream is not bad, but nothing matches the dynamics that Pride had. Everything from the unusual matchups, outrageous personalities, and brutal KOs - made Pride what it was.
Oh I miss Pride! I still wear my Pride shirts with pride.
Osu!
I'm with you, SmoothSake! We discussed it here earlier in the week, and with the same conclusion.
Osu!
harukaze
07-02-2010, 11:44 PM
Pride was the best, and there isn't a month that doesn't go by without me verbally expressing that to whatever poor soul is within earshot :D
Here's the continuation of the article complete with firsthand accounts of the first GP 10 years ago:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/Pride-and-Glory-25240
And another article about the end of Pride:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Pride-Before-the-Fall-25249
Steffen
07-03-2010, 05:35 AM
Agree.. I think we never will se so many top fighters in the same org at the same time. Oh Remember that we thought we could predict how the heavyweight class would end up hehe but it was so hard and thight fights...and and.. sighs.. well back to the training an summercamp now! =o)
powerof0ne
07-03-2010, 05:46 AM
I miss Pride as well but the UFC has marketed itself so well that I don't see it failing anytime soon.
Pride also did not typically do testing of steroids and other drugs. Shamrock, Randleman, and Barnett off the top of my head ;) Even though I would love to see Barnett start fighting again in a big org.
What I loved about Pride was every card was very entertaining to me whereas I will purposely not watch certain UFC cards because the fighters aren't what I want to see. Then again, the UFC seems to have 2-3 cards a month, some times.
Sengoku, Heros, and WEC are other cards I like to see but WEC is just a sister org to the UFC. I also have heard that Sengoku does not pay the fighters well so I don't know how long it will continue.
I'm starting to ramble a bit but Pride also disappeared due to how it was ran and putting itself in the situation for Zuffa/UFC to buy it. The little that I know, it's very hard for a US based business entity to come into Japan and buy a company that didn't want to be bought...Pride wanted to be bought. Ippon for Dana White's business tactics.
Osu!
smoothsake
07-03-2010, 06:09 AM
UFC is by far the better run business, but Pride was the most entertaining.
I'll never forget watching this fight. It basically sealed my love for Pride.
(1:17-1:22)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2f6RGVZ5SI
chukissaki
07-03-2010, 03:41 PM
I miss Pride. I get tired of the lay n pray fests in the UFC ( e.g. rashad evans ) The rule set needs to have a heavy emphasis " effort to finish the fight " judging criteria.
At least we get to see Katsunori Kikuno in Dream. Osu-JP1
powerof0ne
07-03-2010, 04:05 PM
I miss Pride. I get tired of the lay n pray fests in the UFC ( e.g. rashad evans ) The rule set needs to have a heavy emphasis " effort to finish the fight " judging criteria.
At least we get to see Katsunori Kikuno in Dream. Osu-JP1
While I agree there are a lot of people that lay and prey in the UFC I wouldn't say Rashad Evans is a lay and pray fighter. Sure, he can do that, but I have also seen him bob and weave while throwing boxing combinations, kick, knee, etc. Koscheck and Lesnar are more lay and prey fighters, IMO. However, if Lesnar holds you down long enough and you can't submit him you'll probably get TKO/KO'd. GSP has been doing a lot of 'lay and prey' or 'gnp' as of late but it's not as boring to me, I guess because the way he shoots and take downs is awesome to see over and over.
Pride was very entertaining and allowed things the UFC didn't allow but that could change if Pride was still around. Being able to kick a downed opponent, stomp and jump stomp them for instance. This is something good ol' Chute Boxe fighters made their forte and were known for mainly due in part to Pride.
While I like those techniques for real life encounters I'm not so sure they should be allowed in a pro fight if you want to allow fighters any chance of 'long career' of fighting.
Osu!
chukissaki
07-03-2010, 05:34 PM
While I agree there are a lot of people that lay and prey in the UFC I wouldn't say Rashad Evans is a lay and pray fighter. Sure, he can do that, but I have also seen him bob and weave while throwing boxing combinations, kick, knee, etc. Koscheck and Lesnar are more lay and prey fighters, IMO. However, if Lesnar holds you down long enough and you can't submit him you'll probably get TKO/KO'd. GSP has been doing a lot of 'lay and prey' or 'gnp' as of late but it's not as boring to me, I guess because the way he shoots and take downs is awesome to see over and over.
Pride was very entertaining and allowed things the UFC didn't allow but that could change if Pride was still around. Being able to kick a downed opponent, stomp and jump stomp them for instance. This is something good ol' Chute Boxe fighters made their forte and were known for mainly due in part to Pride.
While I like those techniques for real life encounters I'm not so sure they should be allowed in a pro fight if you want to allow fighters any chance of 'long career' of fighting.
Osu!
IMO, Rashad has been doing that his last 2 fights ( since being KO'd by Machida ) :D
powerof0ne
07-03-2010, 10:55 PM
IMO, Rashad has been doing that his last 2 fights ( since being KO'd by Machida ) :D
GSP has done it the last 3+ fights and Rashad's background was wrestling and judo when getting into the UFC so it would make sense but he's quite a striker, too.
Koscheck has been a lay and pray fighter since day 1 in the UFC but being a D1 NCAA wrestler and wrestling coach is probably why, go figure. Same with Lesnar being a D1 NCAA wrestler, pro wrestler, etc.
You fight with your strengths, not your weaknesses.
Anyhow, I'm still watching the UFC tonight, because I'm hoping for Carwin to KO Lesnar :D
Osu-EN1
olyckan
07-03-2010, 11:44 PM
The ruleset and the big circle cage that the UFC has is terrible. Its really a wrestlers wet dream. Pride had very good rules for entertaining MMA.. I really dont think there ever will be a organisation that can produce the quality events that pride did. Not only did they make good events they treated their fighters good. A fighter in pride didnt have to worry about a loss, they where still invited back next time. The UFC has almost as rule nr1 if you loose you are cut.. This is making boring fights because the fighters need the win more then to put up a good entertaining fight.. RIP pride - It was love at first sight...
smoothsake
07-04-2010, 05:29 AM
The other thing about pride was I recognized the fighters. They all had charisma like you would expect from pro wrestling. Watching the UFC is like following the PGA... There's just way too many names to remember them all.
sandman
07-04-2010, 05:59 PM
UFC is by far the better run business, but Pride was the most entertaining.
I'll never forget watching this fight. It basically sealed my love for Pride.
(1:17-1:22)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2f6RGVZ5SI
I remember seeing that too - not exactly a demo of pretty technique or strategy :rolleyes: But definitely exciting to watch :D
Pride was more entertaining but not sure how much they cared for the fighters,they always seemed to put a few rabbits on the card. Who can possibly forget our own Iwasaki being dismantled by Wanderlei in about 40 seconds flat.
powerof0ne
07-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Pride had more Japanese pro wrestlers turned MMA fighters that put on a good show that I think influenced a lot of the entertainment you saw in Pride. Pride also rarely tested for steroids and similar drugs and without testing I'm sure I know of a few fighters that I won't name in Pride that were 'juicing'.
With these two factors I think you saw more entertainment in Pride, fighters 'swinging for the fence' more often (fighters banging toe to toe taking chances more often). I think it's safe to say a MMA event in Japan is going to have more 'budo spirit' more then a MMA fight in the USA.
Sakuraba, Mirko, and Wanderlei in their prime were awesome to watch in pride :D
Osu-EN1
skipau
07-04-2010, 11:07 PM
Its a shame that Pride stuffed up and lost their tv deals and killed them self off... but then I was hoping that K-1's Dream would have come through with the goods... but they are just not living up to standards...and now the talk is that K-1 is going to sell off Dream... maybe UFC will buy that and kill it off too! haha
Osu!
Watching the UFC is like following the PGA...
BWAHAHAAHAHAhahaahahhahahaaah..................... .. (Wheeze wheeze......)
Too darn funny, SmoothSake! :D :D :D
Osu!
laokon
07-27-2010, 09:13 AM
ufc will never provide fights like shogun - rogerio nogueira, which is the best fight i have ever seen *_*
milwaukeecop2
07-27-2010, 09:54 AM
I think some people are mislabeling terms
lay and pray : when a fighter takes their opponent down and lays on them, and prays they keep them there for fear of them getting back to their feet.
ground and pound :A term used to describe a fighting style or technic. To take one's opponent to the ground, establish a dominant position. Usually a top position(i.e., mount, side mount, half mount, etc. can also be used while in one's "guard"). Then reign down punches, elbows and forearm strikes to the downed fighter. This is used in MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) or any other NHB (no holds barred) fight.
they are two totally different tactics, two totally different mindsets
Ryan M Villarosa
07-27-2010, 10:24 AM
Osu.
Many of you may not agree with me but at least the light heavyweight division will be more exciting now that Shogun is there. He may not fight the same way he used to in Pride, but at least he still knows the importance of smashing people and not letting matches in the hand of the judges.
I'm with you all. I miss Pride FC.
GimpTron
07-27-2010, 01:08 PM
Pride was like that really cute, free sprited girl who captured your heart and tamed your soul. UFC is more like a woman who has her goals set in life but is too set in her ways which makes her very boring. LMAO!!! And it's funny but I when I tell people that I enjoy Dream and Sengoku more than UFC they look at me sideways. I, for one, am getting tried of the "lay and pray" or takedown after takedown and winning in that fashion. I don't care what anyone says, King Mo should have not gotten the decision over Mousasi. It's like american MMA has a "lazyness" to it. It's called mixed martial arts for a reason. We, as the consumers of this product, need to let these fighters and these orgs know that we want more diverse fighters and not a bunch of wrestlers who can throw a kick or a punch...and not a good one at that. Pride had so much diversity that it made BJJ artist, like the Gracies, learn how to strike. Just an old man giving his 1 1/2 cents worth.
harukaze
07-28-2010, 04:52 AM
Regarding the whole "lay and pray" issue, there's been a lot of chatter by both pros and amateurs that the North American Unified Rules and its judging standards need to modified, as the "positional dominance" and "ten point must" are leading to really screwy decision victories, especially when a lot of judges from the athletic commissions are trained to judge boxing matches but don't have much of a clue about MMA, especially with the prescriptions and limitations imposed by the North American Unified Rules.
powerof0ne
07-28-2010, 06:49 AM
I think some people are mislabeling terms
lay and pray : when a fighter takes their opponent down and lays on them, and prays they keep them there for fear of them getting back to their feet.
ground and pound :A term used to describe a fighting style or technic. To take one's opponent to the ground, establish a dominant position. Usually a top position(i.e., mount, side mount, half mount, etc. can also be used while in one's "guard"). Then reign down punches, elbows and forearm strikes to the downed fighter. This is used in MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) or any other NHB (no holds barred) fight.
they are two totally different tactics, two totally different mindsets
When Lesnar gasses out he's lay and pray. Koscheck is typically lay and pray but before Lesnar gasses he's all about ground and pound. Then again, I've only seen Lesnar fight about 4 times now. I wouldn't call GSP lay and pray, he always seems to be shooting for a take down and looking for something while on the ground.
I'm not a big fan of ground and pound if that's the only trick the fighter seems to do (Matt Hughes, Lesnar, etc. even though Hughes defeated Renzo primarily standing not long ago) and I'm even less a fan of lay and pray.
Osu!
Ryan M Villarosa
07-29-2010, 12:14 AM
Osu.
Just a quick addition about the things we don't like about the way some fights are dictated in the UFC.
Yeah, it is quite annoying to watch the "lay and pray" tactics of some fighters. But I some fighters (strikers) there also annoy me because of the "hit and run" tactics. I hated Houston Alexander in his match against Kimbo Slice. I was already at the top of my lungs in front of the TV venting out my frustration. Houston already had a good thing going leg kicking Kimbo...
Oh man...
GimpTron
07-29-2010, 12:51 PM
Osu.
Just a quick addition about the things we don't like about the way some fights are dictated in the UFC.
Yeah, it is quite annoying to watch the "lay and pray" tactics of some fighters. But I some fighters (strikers) there also annoy me because of the "hit and run" tactics. I hated Houston Alexander in his match against Kimbo Slice. I was already at the top of my lungs in front of the TV venting out my frustration. Houston already had a good thing going leg kicking Kimbo...
Oh man...
When you say hit and run, do you mean the same thing that Floyd Mayweather does?
Ryan M Villarosa
07-30-2010, 12:46 AM
When you say hit and run, do you mean the same thing that Floyd Mayweather does?
Close to that. :(
chukissaki
07-31-2010, 02:19 AM
The big problem with NA judging ( lay n pray ) mindset is the difference in the warrior and an athlete. The warrior is always looking for an oppurtunity to finish their opponent. The athlestes are looking for the least risk-taking ways to consistently "win" fights.
it's passing from a contest, sometimes a contrast, of styles and individuals into a sport.
NA mma needs to start placing a heavy influence on the effort to finish the fight.