Ok, no bashing, no "my style is better than yours", or anything like that.
I was talking to a friend last week and he asked me: "You practiced and Muay Thai for so long...and now you decided to practice this kyokushin karate as your main martial art and do some kickboxing once or twice a week...........What is so special about kyokushin?....what's the difference between kyokushin and other martial arts?"
I just answered him: "easy:D.....kyokushin hurts....it hurts a lot....muay thai is fun, it's very efective......it's excelent for conditioning, self defence,build confidence,make you strong........but kyokushin is everithing I said about MT and hurts more. Sometimes I think I like to suffer.....lol"
Now seriously this little chat got me thinking (I'm not very good at it......lol:D) What is the difference between kyokushin and other martial arts?
Tks a lot, OSU!
Evergrey
10-24-2010, 08:58 PM
I have only ever practiced Kyokushin, unless you count like three kendo lessons from a friend and a couple of months of shorin ryu (is that you you spell it?) when I was 12... From those months, I only remember how to count to 10 in japanese, a double-punch in a kata, chambering my punches, a couple of self defense moves, and a distinctive lack of kumite.
I visited a Kung Fu school a friend was attending, and the Sifu was nice enough to come greet me. I thanked him for his hospitality and told him I was a new Kyokushin karateka. He flinched when I told him my style, and told me he lived in Brazil for a number of years, where apparently Kyokushin was pretty big. He saw it in action in Japan as well. His eyes darted to the bruises on my arms and he said "yeah... it's a really hard style. We're not so hard on our new students here."
Beyond that, I only know what I have heard of our reputation from other martial artists. That we tend to train harder than a lot of styles. That we tend to be able to soak more pain. That we don't punch to the head (actually, the ones I know do when it's an open any-style tournament, heh) and that our kicks are pretty painful. The MMA people seem to overall have a bit more respect for us than most other traditional MAs. *shrugs* It works for me, and I love it.
DrPhil
10-24-2010, 09:41 PM
"easy:D.....kyokushin hurts....it hurts a lot"
Why is it a good thing that it hurts?
Suppose you could get the same benefits in term of fitness, self defense and so on from an other sport, why don't choose the sport that hurts less?
It's like when going to the dentist, isn't it better with anesthesia?
Evergrey
10-24-2010, 09:57 PM
Why is it a good thing that it hurts?
Suppose you could get the same benefits in term of fitness, self defense and so on from an other sport, why don't choose the sport that hurts less?
It's like when going to the dentist, isn't it better with anesthesia?
Endorphins are a fun high! :D
powerof0ne
10-24-2010, 10:04 PM
I got more hurt in muay thai and saw more injuries in muay thai so I guess my experience is a lot different. I like muay thai and kyokushin but feel that kyokushin can be practiced a lot longer whereas muay thai isn't typically done by "the older".
I've had experience in a pretty good amount of martial arts. I basically prefer more 'full contact' martial arts that seem to be more grounded in reality. I don't like martial arts that train too compliant, are more about how pretty a technique looks, focus too much on kata, or ones that seem to focus too much on ceremonial play time than actually train.
I can go on and on with this topic and I really don't want to say Kyokushin is this vs. this specific style because there is always exceptions.
I like a lot of different martial arts and dislike just as many. However, I'm not immortal and only have so much time so focus on a few these days.
Osu!
tmd
10-24-2010, 10:05 PM
it is a good think coz life hurts, getting hurt teaches you about yourself, do you cower away or go **** that and fight back! Most people i know who are kyokushinkai take the later route, most people I know who ain't don't. But to be fair most people I know in ma do kyokushin. Biggest difference i know between kyokushin and others is a really nasty generalisation but conditioning. I ain't ever train as hard or been hit as hard outside as i have in and inside kyokushin i think this is a given rather than an exception, sure there are 'hard' everything dojo's but kyokushin is about hard it,s nothin exceptional - it's the norm.
As MMX / old Rocky would say "it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you get hit and keep coming, and nothin hits as hard as life!" he may not know it but sly stalone is kyokushin through and through, maybe it was his exposure to the man?
Thunar
10-25-2010, 11:45 AM
Why is it a good thing that it hurts?
Suppose you could get the same benefits in term of fitness, self defense and so on from an other sport, why don't choose the sport that hurts less?
It's like when going to the dentist, isn't it better with anesthesia?
See the little green face in my answer to my friend when I started the thread?........It means I was kidding .......making a joke.....being funny............just relaxing with this friend of mine when we were having a conversation.
If you are interested about the "phylosophical" side of this conversation...later on we were talking about how people nowadays need everything to be easy, painless, that they have to feel that they are "special", that everyone has a talent....and all this "high self steem" bull****.....and kyokushin (as i know) is exacly the oposite of that. There are no shortcuts, you have to respect the elder, it hurts (as life does) and you have to get over it in order to move forward...and many other things that will take to long for me to write in here.
Like I said, I'm not looking for bashin, i love martial arts in general, and I'm always curious about many styles, and i do not think that kyokushin is superior or anything, I'm just curious to discover what atract other people to the style.
Osu!.
I got more hurt in muay thai and saw more injuries in muay thai so I guess my experience is a lot different. I like muay thai and kyokushin but feel that kyokushin can be practiced a lot longer whereas muay thai isn't typically done by "the older".
I've had experience in a pretty good amount of martial arts. I basically prefer more 'full contact' martial arts that seem to be more grounded in reality. I don't like martial arts that train too compliant, are more about how pretty a technique looks, focus too much on kata, or ones that seem to focus too much on ceremonial play time than actually train.
I can go on and on with this topic and I really don't want to say Kyokushin is this vs. this specific style because there is always exceptions.
I like a lot of different martial arts and dislike just as many. However, I'm not immortal and only have so much time so focus on a few these days.
Osu!
As always, I respect a lot your aswers Powerofone, in fact muay thai is also very hard and I think that bot arts MT and kyokushin, besides being "rivals" are also a good complement to each other......and i know that for experience, since I have done MT for many years and I love the art. Maybe my experiences and yours may be diferent and that is ok......
In kyokushin right now I do not compete (I'm planning to do that by the end of the year), but in MT I used to compete.....not a very high level or being professional....no.....but I was a State champion for a couple of years when I was a teenager....and now I feel that in kyokushin I just train harder and go beyond to perfect my conditioning, tecnique or fighting skills....
Maybe I right...or maybe I just got brain damaged......:D........It's always good to hear your answers powerofone, you asre one of the people I respect the most here in this forum.
Osu!
it is a good think coz life hurts, getting hurt teaches you about yourself, do you cower away or go **** that and fight back! Most people i know who are kyokushinkai take the later route, most people I know who ain't don't. But to be fair most people I know in ma do kyokushin. Biggest difference i know between kyokushin and others is a really nasty generalisation but conditioning. I ain't ever train as hard or been hit as hard outside as i have in and inside kyokushin i think this is a given rather than an exception, sure there are 'hard' everything dojo's but kyokushin is about hard it,s nothin exceptional - it's the norm.
As MMX / old Rocky would say "it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you get hit and keep coming, and nothin hits as hard as life!" he may not know it but sly stalone is kyokushin through and through, maybe it was his exposure to the man?
Great post TMD.......everything I wanted to say....but i could not (because I don't have the brains to write it properly:D)
Seriously, great post!
Osu!
pandorasvise
10-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Why is it a good thing that it hurts?
Suppose you could get the same benefits in term of fitness, self defense and so on from an other sport, why don't choose the sport that hurts less?
It's like when going to the dentist, isn't it better with anesthesia?
Pain is the best teacher. I get a lot less pain now than I did when I started. I have learned how to avoid injuries as much as possible. Block the kicks to the head, pick up my leg and how to aim for the best place to make as short as possible. In real life, there are no referrees and time limits. A street fight is less than a minute, if something ever happens, I would rather have a beating from my sensei than a stranger.
Pain is also good for the spirit. Being able to endure makes you have a strong mind. Pushing through the pain and discomfort in the dojo, make a more sucessful and fulfilled person out of the dojo. In kyokushin you push yourself past what you can think you can handle. Your body wants to stop, then your mind gives up, but somehow, you find the spirit to continue.
Osu-EN1
GJEC
10-25-2010, 02:10 PM
There's no courage without fear.
Proper training includes a bit of both.
Soft training doesn't and that's the difference.
Gary
residentrenzo
10-26-2010, 03:39 AM
There's no courage without fear.
Proper training includes a bit of both.
Soft training doesn't and that's the difference.
Gary
Osu!
Simple and to the point.
Repped!
Osu!
GJEC
10-26-2010, 06:31 AM
Thanks residentrenzo
Gary
Ros
10-26-2010, 06:37 AM
"easy:D.....kyokushin hurts....it hurts a lot....
That we tend to be able to soak more pain.
it is a good think coz life hurts, getting hurt teaches you about yourself,
Pain is the best teacher.
I therefore conclude that the kyokushin difference is a masochistic streak a mile wide! ;):D You're all mentalists!! :D
Monty
10-26-2010, 06:41 AM
I therefore conclude that the kyokushin difference is a masochistic streak a mile wide! ;):D You're all mentalists!! :D
Ros, The term "Mentalist" might be mis-interpreted by our friends from across the pond:)
powerof0ne
10-26-2010, 06:43 AM
Ros, The term "Mentalist" might be mis-interpreted by our friends from across the pond:)
LOL, yes it is :)
Osu!
Ros
10-26-2010, 06:44 AM
Ros, The term "Mentalist" might be mis-interpreted by our friends from across the pond:)
Oh yes! :) How about nutters then? :D (Or just take the 'ist' off!)
Monty
10-26-2010, 06:46 AM
Oh yes! :) How about nutters then? :D (Or just take the 'ist' off!)
I'm sure that will do :)
GJEC
10-26-2010, 06:52 AM
I think seeking pain for it's own sake is a bit mental, whereas learning how to handle it can be useful.
Some cross the line - remember that thread about Russian training.
That's mental ...
Gary
jungsun86
10-26-2010, 07:08 AM
I have a lot of experience in both Taekwondo and an Okinawan style of Karate (Isshin-ryu). The biggest difference I see has to do with conditioning. I was a collegiate competitor in Taekwondo, and we sparred using knockdown rules in my Isshinryu dojo, but the conditioning is still different. Here's what I saw:
In a good sport Taekwondo dojang the focus would be heavy on cardio and tournament sparring. Classes would usually be about 10% warmup, 10% teaching time, 60% sparring, and 20% conditioning. This would be a competition focused school. Most TKD dojan are not like this.
The Isshinryu Karate dojo I was, and still am in a way, a part of was definitely different from the normal strip mall variety that seems to litter (pun definitely intended) the East Coast. The conditioning was concentrated heavily on makiwara and hojo undo. They concentrated more on kata and bunkai, but the sparring was hard contact with minimal padding, none for gradings. We allowed open hand strikes to the head. Other than that, knockdown rules applied. We did a lot of pushups and situps, but hojo undo was the main thing: kame jars, chishi, etc.
The Kyokushinkan dojo I am a part of now is similar to the Isshinryu dojo, but we hit pads, we hit bags, we do more body weight exercises. More pushups, more situps, more squats, etc. The conditioning is definitely more competition oriented, and we do pretty much zero bunkai work. We still have kata night once a week, but not a lot of it is broken down.
This is just my observation, but it seems like Okinawan Karate attempts to make you apply the exact techniques from the kata to fighting, which is why people get stuck at the compliant one-step phase and never move past it (that bothers me), while Kyokushin tends to keep kata, and kumite separate but linked. Kata is to be perfected for the sake of Budo, but the techniques you use in kata do not have to be applied to kumite. I'll post again when I have time to clarify my thoughts and make them more coherent.
GJEC
10-26-2010, 07:14 AM
Another huge difference is the mindset we take on the mat.
"Finish it" not "Score points"
Gary
residentrenzo
10-26-2010, 07:27 AM
Osu!
A question for knowledgeable forum members: what is Kansuiryu Karate?
I just read about it on wikipedia. I don't understand that much, but to me it seems very similar to Kyokushin. Wonder if they practice ground techs as well?
Osu!
blugularis
10-27-2010, 10:16 PM
Pain is the best teacher. I get a lot less pain now than I did when I started. I have learned how to avoid injuries as much as possible. Block the kicks to the head, pick up my leg and how to aim for the best place to make as short as possible. In real life, there are no referrees and time limits. A street fight is less than a minute, if something ever happens, I would rather have a beating from my sensei than a stranger.
Pain is also good for the spirit. Being able to endure makes you have a strong mind. Pushing through the pain and discomfort in the dojo, make a more sucessful and fulfilled person out of the dojo. In kyokushin you push yourself past what you can think you can handle. Your body wants to stop, then your mind gives up, but somehow, you find the spirit to continue.
Osu-EN1
My Aikido teacher says that falling down, getting back up, falling down, getting back up, over and over again, was a "great teacher," and a metaphor for life, you fall down, get back up. When I told that to Johny (KSK, Ashihara, Enshin), he said, "I don't like to fall down, I want the other guy to fall down" (paraphrased, it was a long time ago)