MT Fighters Fighting Under KK Rules?

[smoothsake]

So I know of several cases where KK fighters have fought under MT rules or modified MT rules. Even K-1 is more MT than it is Kyokushin. So my question is has there been any recorded fight of a MT fighter fighting under knockdown karate rules??

[ksan]

We have them here is our competitions... A lot of dojo`s have both kyokushin and kickboksing classes and they have their kickbokser fight in the kyokushin tournaments aswell.... Some cant cope with the "no-face-punches" rule... especially when they are being over run by the oppenent (the automatic left face jab to create distance always comes back in panick situations)....

Overall it lifts the level of our tournaments i think,.. so its a good thing....


Osu


ksan

[satanclaws]

We had some mui thai fighters in the new AMAC tournaments last month. Unfortunatly they all lost in the f.c fights which were mostly Kyokushin rules. One was DQ because of the clinch not bieng allowed

[powerof0ne]

I've seen it, I kind of was one of those "muay thai guys" when I first fought in a Sabaki tournament. A lot of the MT guys have problems fighting under these rules because of no face punches and no clinching. The pace a lot of knockdown fighters fight is usually different than the pace a muay thai fighter fights at because of it being a tournament, too.

[Sonik]

I know Songchai, a MT champion from old-school (who is now a major promotoer if not mistaken) fought in a Kyokushin Karate tournament. There's some footage of his performance on Youtube.

[ryudo]

Man what they ought to have is a tournament where everything is allowed, well I think that groin kick and gouging could be dispense off. But over all, everything else should be allow, specially what I would like to see is a fight were a kyokushin guy beats the hell out of a judo or BJJ guy.
Mind you judo is my first passion, but Kyokushin is the only one that compares and I think with the proper training i.e. teaching the kyokushin fighter how the judo/jutsu guy fights. The kyokushin fighter will win. A powerfull blow will always dether anybody from grabbing you.

[satanclaws]

I think that is called MMA. You get to see all that action in Pride F.C or UFC

[desertfox]

i was able to watch a kyokushin vs kickboxing/muaythai tournament. what they did was to alternate kickboxing rules (with gloves) and knockdown karate rules (bare knuckle). the karatekas were able to adjust very well to the kickboxing rules and were able to win some of the matches. On the other hand, the kickboxers were not able to adapt to the knockdown rules and there were some disqualifications due to illegal punches to the face. i don't think these were intentional though. i think the kickboxer's instinct is to punch the face if its open.

[Martin H]

There was someone on the mma.tv forum a few months ago who mentioned that he and a friend -both thaiboxers, had entered a sabaki challenge (enshin) and placed high. I dont remember any details though.
Here in sweden there was a open knockdown tournament arranged by a thaiboxing club a while ago (run by a former kyokushin guy) where a muaythai based kickboxer entered. He was eliminated in his first fight.
Kiatsongrit (famous thaiboxer) entered the seidokaikan world cup (knockdown rules) in 93, won one fight (vs a japanese TKD guy) and was then eliminated by Andy Hug.

Thaiboxers enter knockdown competitions every now and then, but they seldom do all that well.

[nangoushuujin]

In the video "the stongest karate" which documents the third world tournament there is a MT fighter in there who won a few fights, in the end he was defeated by a European with devastating gedan mawashi geri's. Some of the most powerful gedans I have seen.

Osu

[Aunty Ichigeki]

We had kickboxers fight our guys our rules one year in a match fight event (3 x 2min). They didn't do well at all at all! To get them back we had to give them the 3 sec clinch which swung things right back in their favour.

[sublimo]

Mongkhon Kalek fought at the rengokai world tournament and became 2nd. (middle weight)

[friedmandu]

The Kyokushin tournaments I've attended in Seoul are open--anyone from any martial art can participate in the tournament as long as they abide by the rules of Kyokushin kumite. I've seen Taekwondo, Hapkido, Teukong Moosul, Kickboxing, and Muay Thai fighters all hop into the ring.

We had kickboxers fight our guys our rules one year in a match fight event (3 x 2min). They didn't do well at all at all! To get them back we had to give them the 3 sec clinch which swung things right back in their favour.

I think that this perfectly illustrates the importance of the rules of a competition and how they determine everything. It's going to be hard for someone to adapt to a new set of rules, no matter what art they are coming from.

I was introducing Kyokushin to a boxer once, and he said it took every bit of willpower he had to resist punching me in the face while we were sparring. Habit and reflex are powerful things indeed.

[shidokanatlanta]

if you learn the rules and put in adequate training time to prepare, then you will do well fighting under different rules.

[Bluelondon]

I think it's much easier for KK fighters to adapt to MT rules than vise e versa.

I watched a youtube video last night of Andy Hug fighting a MT fighter in K1 and even though Andy beat him pretty convincingly, the ref had to stop the fight 3 times because the MT fighter kept instinctively hitting to the face. I'm sure it's easy to think that one can simply not hit to the face when taking part in KD rules, but I'm sure once your in there, in the thick of it, it's a different story.

[powerof0ne]

I think it's much easier for KK fighters to adapt to MT rules than vise e versa.

I watched a youtube video last night of Andy Hug fighting a MT fighter in K1 and even though Andy beat him pretty convincingly, the ref had to stop the fight 3 times because the MT fighter kept instinctively hitting to the face. I'm sure it's easy to think that one can simply not hit to the face when taking part in KD rules, but I'm sure once your in there, in the thick of it, it's a different story.

I disagree and the reason why you don't see many muay thai fighters trying to adapt to KD is because there is no monetary incentive to do so or not as much as one. A pro muay thai fighter makes more money doing muay thai and different types of kickboxing rules fights then they would doing knockdown.

There is a monetary incentive for seidokaikan, ichigeki, etc. to adapt to K-1 rules and so on. K-1 is not muay thai, neither, it used to be somewhat close in rules but is its own rules now.

Now show me a fighter that can go back and forth without hardly any preparation between KD and muay thai at a high level and I will be impressed.

I'm beginnning to feel like a robot talking about this but most muay thai fighters I know that have tried knockdown rules do so for fun and don't really train much for it. The ones I saw fight personally didn't do well but they were far from injured..it's just a different "beast".

Anthony Britton from Vancouver, BC was a guy from the late 90s I saw win at least 2, if not 3 Seattle Sabaki tournaments and I'm surprised he never fought in the challenge as far as I know...

People like Hug, Filho, Pettas, Feitosa, etc. that went to K-1 and similar events trained with boxing coaches, kickboxing coaches, and muay thai coaches.

If there was more of a monetary incentive to do knockdown I guarantee you would see more thaiboxers enter and really train for it.

I'll put it this way, when I fought muay thai I never had to pay anything, not once, even my first fight. Unfortunately most KD tournaments require one to pay for accommodation, travel, entrance fee, etc.

If you don't know, muay thai's history is based largely on gambling, at least in it's present form. Unfortunately, very poor families in Thailand send their children to thaiboxing camps and if their children are good their 8-15 y/o children are making more money then their own parents are! Hence why you can see a Thai thaiboxer that is master skilled in his early 20s. It's a ring sport with a lot of survival in it's blood. Most, if not all KD competitors do it as a hobby, not because if they don't their parents aren't going to have a roof over their heads. This means that Thailand has many experts in muay thai. I'm not saying every Thai thaiboxer is or was poor but unfortunately many got into muay thai instead of the unfortunate alternative known as the sex trade.

However, I love KD and muay thai rules :) I'm just playing devil's advocate here and showing you a thaiboxing POV.

I honestly think Muay Thai is also somewhat a "younger man's" sport and can't be appreciated as much when you're older as karate can. Just my .02 cents.

Youtube showing Anthony fighting my first MT coach Alberto Ramirez in the beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fxNctEQibk

Alberto won it the year before maybe training 2-3 times with Michael Cairnes prior to the tournament. I forgot his opponent's name but he was from Japan and undefeated under Sabaki rules to that point.

Don't be fooled by Anthony's uniform, he was a Simon Posener black belt which was muay thai and "pankration" but Anthony at that time was a thaiboxer.

[Godai]

Nice post....good points.