View Full Version : kyokushin & ballet?
kanku
11-10-2008, 05:36 PM
we have discussed would boxing, judo, mma etc help with kyokushin training.....
how about ballet?
now i`m not looking to do an "Olrac" and upset every female on this forum but i`ve been thinking it for a while so it`s going to be said.
with the EXCEPTION of our lady forum superstars....the vast majority of ladies knockdown i have seen involves flat footed slugging into chest protectors in an almost robotic manner.....eyes out on stalks, rhino fighting.....particularly those from holland i have seen fight recently........including the lady that won the last british open at crystal palace......i only mention holland because two or three fighters stand out in my mind.....obviously the standard of tuition is very high in holland and i am not having a dig at the dutch....the yellow belt at k2 is a great prospect and i am aware that if a dutch fighter turns up at a knockdown,you have to be very good to beat them!!:)
balance and movement imo is sadly lacking....so am i picking on low grades who are giving of their best, or do you think a few ballet classes would help with balance and movement and confidence..........again this is only something i have thought about and i would be interested to hear peoples views...i promise i won`t be offended:D
i know there is no substitute for years of kyokushin training/experiences...i think boxing helps a k.d fighter with his/her punching...why not ballet for balance and movement?
perhaps look at this the reverse way for those of you who teach.......if a six foot ballerina with 12 years ballet experience and a confident personality turned up at your dojo and said, "i want to fight knockdown,please would you teach me"......you already know they have the mindset for very hard training...no worries on that count...it would be an exiting prospect wouldn`t it?
Olrac
11-10-2008, 06:31 PM
now i`m not looking to do an "Olrac" and upset every female on this forum but i`ve been thinking it for a while so it`s going to be said.
....the yellow belt at k2 is a great prospect and i am aware that if a dutch fighter turns up at a knockdown,you have to be very good to beat them!!:)
Hey, I'm getting famous here :D
Doing an "Olrac"?? I don't want to think about all of you guys "doing Olrac"!
This freaks me out. :eek:
Yes Hasbeen, that Yellow belt is a great fighter, he won the Holland Oyama Cup.
We were all looking forward to the fight of Darren Chan against Robert, but unfortunately Darren twisted his knee and turned away from the fight twice so the match went to Robert.
I also would like to see a combination of kyokushin and ballet.
I really would love to see those guys in tights running around performing Swanlake and beating each other :rolleyes:
But I guess that's not what you meant........
I think dancing really can be a benefit for kyokushin, and not only ballet. In a lot of dancing styles body control, rythme, balance, coördination, ... are important
All things that are also important in karate I think.
Osu! hasbeen,
Unfortunately I think a lot of the kyokushin fight videos you see on yt etc. show the 'robotic' fighting you mention! I don´t know if ballet classes would help, but I know that my first sensei had a boxing background and really beat good, evasive footwork and body movement into us. I really don´t think it needs anything more than that - which I guess you may get from ballet, but really a bit of basic boxing technique may be more appropriate! :)
Osu!
I think it was Seienchin who remarked that she had had a few former ballerinas starting Kyokushin, and they all were quite talented, since they had firm (self)discipline, incredible flexibility, a good understanding of body movement (I miss a better English word for this, please help), as well as the mindset for serious physical training.
There have been a handful of gymnasts in my dojo, and they were also talented students for the reasons mentioned above.
harukaze
11-11-2008, 02:46 AM
I believe almost all athletes have an advantage when starting martial arts (as opposed to the someone starting a martial art without any sort of athletic background), dancers included!
Kurisu
11-11-2008, 05:12 AM
I think things like gynmanstics, ballet or other forms of intricate forms of dancing would help a martial artist. Time for me to buy a tutu.
intwominds
11-11-2008, 06:58 AM
hasbeen, its so funny you started this thread today. I asked the girls at work today if any of them had any dancing experience, because I wanted some advice on spins, as I am still having trouble with my ura techniques. One of them did ballet classes when they were younger and emphasised the need to spot (which I already knew but am not particularly good at). Then I get home from work and see this thread.
As mentioned above, experience in dancing and/or gymnastics could only be an advantage for balance, etc
seienchin
11-11-2008, 09:48 AM
All good comments. The biggest hurdle is for a dancer to overcome the expressive/aesthetic imperative, and start focusing on impact and damage. That's where many dancers falter. Actually, that's where a lot of karate-ka falter
leenaloulou
11-11-2008, 09:55 AM
For female fighters doing ballet to help balance and movement yes and no. I think it would depend on the experience of the fighter in ballet, beginners ballet lessons tend to teach poise, posture, and finding your centre (I suppose that would help) premier, seconde, troisieme etc...feet positions, however even feet positions take time to master as rolled ankles and collapsed arches can occur. To get from here to mastering a pirouette, or a grade 6 (I think) Pas de bourree would take a long while more time that a martial artist has for it. So a few lessons wouldn't suffice if the fighter had no experience of ballet. However for stretching, ballet is well worth it. (this is what I remember from ballet anyway)
Boxing is probably a more efficient, practical and complimentary option. Footwork (balance movement) is just as important (lots of skipping). Plus female fighters might benefit from further building upper body strength and confidence. High rep weight training might help here too.
The most efficient core stability (balance) exercise I have ever done is walking plank on hands and feet (6 minutes or more several times a week). Far exceeding in my experience any dance, yoga, pilates or swiss ball exercises, in terms of building the core quickly.
Yoga is terrible for all of this. I do it for fun and have found that it hasn't benefited me in any way that I have noticed.
kanku
11-11-2008, 05:28 PM
For female fighters doing ballet to help balance and movement yes and no. I think it would depend on the experience of the fighter in ballet, beginners ballet lessons tend to teach poise, posture, and finding your centre (I suppose that would help) premier, seconde, troisieme etc...feet positions, however even feet positions take time to master as rolled ankles and collapsed arches can occur. To get from here to mastering a pirouette, or a grade 6 (I think) Pas de bourree would take a long while more time that a martial artist has for it. So a few lessons wouldn't suffice if the fighter had no experience of ballet. However for stretching, ballet is well worth it. (this is what I remember from ballet anyway)
Boxing is probably a more efficient, practical and complimentary option. Footwork (balance movement) is just as important (lots of skipping). Plus female fighters might benefit from further building upper body strength and confidence. High rep weight training might help here too.
The most efficient core stability (balance) exercise I have ever done is walking plank on hands and feet (6 minutes or more several times a week). Far exceeding in my experience any dance, yoga, pilates or swiss ball exercises, in terms of building the core quickly.
Yoga is terrible for all of this. I do it for fun and have found that it hasn't benefited me in any way that I have noticed.
great post....what you say makes a lot of sense:)
FutureProdigy
11-11-2008, 06:51 PM
The most efficient core stability (balance) exercise I have ever done is walking plank on hands and feet (6 minutes or more several times a week). Far exceeding in my experience any dance, yoga, pilates or swiss ball exercises, in terms of building the core quickly.
Walking plank on hands and feet? What is that?
Osu!
Walking plank on hands and feet? What is that?
An exercise method whereby we hold a position that has the body straight, and supported on hands, or forearms, and feet. Good for strengthening the core, and great as an interlude from sweatier training. :D
Osu!
An exercise method whereby we hold a position that has the body straight, and supported on hands, or forearms, and feet. Good for strengthening the core, and great as an interlude from sweatier training. :DAnd I here thought it involved pirates and viscious sea creatures. Silly me.
leenaloulou
11-11-2008, 10:05 PM
http://www.bodyresults.com/E2planks.asp
(http://www.bodyresults.com/E2planks.asp)
here you go thanks for finding the last post useful
I dont have enough posts here to provide the proper link so hopefully you can decipher what I have put here
Lx
Moderator note: Fixed the link for you. :)
thnx 4 fixing the link
FutureProdigy
11-12-2008, 05:58 PM
OSU. Thanks for the link, thats helps.
bitterbut
11-13-2008, 05:35 PM
their was a story I was told back when, it was about Oyama and a ballet friend at a dance and a few undsirable who picked a fight with them.
As the stroy goes [short version] the ballet friend did quite well at the beginning as Oyama stated, though he had to step in and help him fight off the multi thugs...
Oyama was impressed with his strength and agillity and did stand up to [I think it was 3-4 guys] so .......
danzee88
12-12-2008, 05:00 PM
I actually took 3 years of tap, jazz, modern and ballet dance styles in the 3 years leading up the the beginning of my Kyokushin training. as a result i was the 2nd most flexible guy there (the other guy had been a cheerleader stunter in highschool...he could do splits!) but i definatly had the best sense of movement and learning Kata was that much easier. I felt it translated very well into my training in Kyokushin.
Shokei Marcsui
12-12-2008, 05:05 PM
Dancing will help in coordination and footwork like mentioned above.
Osu!
I think that the discipline of dance carries over well to MA training. They used to have a ballet class before us in the hall we were training in. Seeing the forced stretches made us grateful to be getting hit instead! :D
Osu!
Shokei Marcsui
12-12-2008, 05:13 PM
When not in the dojo I practice in a ballet studio at the YMCA. Mirrors, hard wood floors and those nifty hand rails. :P
Osu!
Sounds like I should sign up for those salsa classes... :)
Osu!
danzee88
12-12-2008, 05:20 PM
OSU Salsa would be an interesting translation into a Kumite
You: "OSU!"
Opponent: "OSU!"
*the fight begins, punches are exchanged and a number of hearty kicks when suddenly JCC's hips begin moving seductively*
Opponent: What are you doing?! Get away from me!
*opponent runs out of the ring*
JCC: VICTORY!
Osu!
So you´ve seen me fight then?? :)
Osu!
danzee88
12-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Osu!
Apparently! Although with those moves i wouldn't stand a chance!
Osu!
arasan
12-12-2008, 11:37 PM
Osu-EN1
I came across this youtube video a while ago of a white belt who is a pro salsa dancer. I couldn't believe he was a white belt at first.. I think dancing/ballet or anything other training that requires coordination and flexibility definitely helps.
ai8Ty5I7iao
FutureProdigy
12-17-2008, 05:45 PM
He is a white belt training for green? Do you normally skip orange blue yellow if your an advanced person?
as a side note: its interesting hes a salsa dancer... you don't think of them as being very flexible (the girls maybe). I consider them to have rhythm and balance. You would think ballet would cross over better than salsa though. Interesting video nonetheless. OSU
trueg
05-01-2009, 11:47 PM
Yoga is terrible for all of this. I do it for fun and have found that it hasn't benefited me in any way that I have noticed.
Seriously, no benefit from doing Yoga? I would have thought it would help with flexibility. I'm starting p90x on Sunday and I tried the Yoga X and really enjoyed it. I was hoping the Yoga portion would help with my flexibility in Kyokushin. :(
As for ballet, I always assumed that the five years of ballet that Van Damme did is what allowed him to be so flexible (splits & really high kicks). If you just wanted to increase your flexibility and balance I think ballet would be very beneficial.
p.s. regarding that video, I've never seen anyone get beat on while doing breathing exercises (the end part). Is that common?
I've been doing a LOT of yoga last 10 years, in fact I have a teachers license in Iyengar yoga. To be honest, I consider it FAR more challenging and demanding than a lot of karate and other martial arts I've done. Iyengar yoga is generally known as no-nonsense yoga, with much emphasis on physical (body) work. Although limberness and flexibility is not the main goal, it is usually a by-product, as is core strength. I found it to be tremendous helpfull for my martial arts development.
Humanmakiwara
05-06-2009, 09:04 PM
I overheard a remark from a very experienced Goju Ryu Shihan and Muay Thai Coach. "Fighting is like Dancing, its all in the hips!"
I overheard a remark from a very experienced Goju Ryu Shihan and Muay Thai Coach. "Fighting is like Dancing, its all in the hips!"
Coudn't agree more!!! Hips and feet - whatch the footwork on most top athletes (who need to 'dance' around - am not talking about cyclists, rowers, race drivers! :)) It all starts there!
walshy
05-08-2009, 10:27 PM
I overheard a remark from a very experienced Goju Ryu Shihan and Muay Thai Coach. "Fighting is like Dancing, its all in the hips!"
Problem is..... I CAN'T DANCE :D Osu-EN1
Osu!
Problem is..... I CAN'T DANCE :D Osu-EN1
I hear you, Walshy! Neither of my left feet is any good! :D
Osu!