View Full Version : Oyama's "Kyokushin Way"
Varzael
05-04-2009, 01:43 AM
First things first, hello everyone!
I would like to point out something to the community:
The book mentioned on the topic's title belongs to Sosai's bibliography and is the only I'm aware of that deals with the philosophical side practicing karate (what is its utmost purpose other than the strengthening of the body) and has many insights about how Oyama thought about many things.
I happened to come across a webpage that hosted a couple of chapters from it and that was how I learned all the above. All in all, it seems like an interesting book that would interest most book-loving knockdown karatekas (and not only I might add).
I'm about to begin my military service in 2 weeks and had been looking for interesting books to pass my spare time beteween the drills when I came across the webpage that mentioned "The Kyokushin Way". I got interested immediately and tried to track down a copy.
Here is the tricky part:
It's nowhere to be found!!
Its first and last publication was in the 1979 (correct me if I'm wrong) and is not available on the net as an ebook, nor at any bookstore(online or physical) that I've searched.
The really disgusting thing is that you can only find it sold second hand at absurd prices (the cheapest was 130 euro, the biggest even 300 USD!).
I wouldn't blame the sellers for trying to make a buck(even though I should:mad:), but the point is that it's a shame classical books like this are denied from the interested public (and who knows what other books share a similar fate).
Couldn't someone that has it in his possesion scan it and make a torrent so that everyone can share it with anyone interested? I don't think that any deceased author would wish his written works be denied from the public thirsty to read them...
And to tak this a step further, shouldn't we do a similar thing with all out of print kyokushin/martial arts books and the only way to find them is through greedy second hand sellers?
Cheers
Peder
05-04-2009, 08:11 AM
I do not think this is ok. It is copyrighted material, and should not be distributed illegaly even if out of print. You should contact Sosai's family, who I assume are the owners of the intellectual property, and ask that they republish this book.
I believe there are laws that will make works public domain after some time has passed, but I am very sure that this book is too recent for this to happen.
Also you risk bringing down the wrath of law enforcement on K4L by posting this. Soliciting requests for copyright violations is a criminal offense in some countries, and I think it is improper to involve K4L in this - even if I do understand your reasons for wanting this book available to a wider audience.
sandman
05-04-2009, 10:29 AM
I agree with Peder on this one - I can certainly understand the frustration, but laws are laws.
Greedy sellers?
So if you do end up buying one for $300 can I have it for the cover price once you are done reading it? Thanks!
Then I'll sell it for just $5 over what I paid and send you the whole $5 (so that I make no money and show no greed). The person I sell it to will sell it for $5 over what he paid and send you the $5. And so on until you get your $300 back.
No one will be greedy. You'll have paid nothing for the book in the end and neither will anyone else. Well, except for the last guy who bought it... and he'll have paid: you guessed it $300 + the cover price! Overall the one book would have generated over $10,000.00 in revenue.
But don't worry about him. He can sell the book online for $300 + the cover price and get his money back.
Hey wait... maybe that's *him* you saw selling the book!
That Greedy Bastard! :rolleyes:
Varzael
05-04-2009, 03:42 PM
No, that greedy bastard is the guy that gave 3 bucks back in the seventies and now, seeing that demand is way higher than supply for said item, sells it online for 300 USD plus shipping costs.
The existence of your "greedy seller" does not rule out the exsistence of mine, to whom I was referring.
Thus, ippon for Varzael:D
Joking aside I understand what you mean. And sure, laws are laws, I just thought that this book had achieved a "classic" (or maybe "pulp" status) in a way that no one cares to re-issue it anymore and wouldn't mind it being shared freely, because the lost revenue would be far less than the re-issuing cost.
...
.......Of course we could arrange this between us and with many *winks*, pm e-mails and make the torrent outside of K4L's walls for the sake of the site's safety, and delete the thread afterwards altogether.;);)
But that would be too risky, I wouldn't recommend it and something a very distant cousin of mine had heard of happening somewhere sometime:rolleyes:.
So off to mail the Oyamas' I am.
Ooooohhhh, you mean the guy who kept the book for 30 years? Oh, *that* greedy bastard! ;) I sure hope he doesn't sell the home he bought back then for too much!
I'd be one of the first to buy a copy of a reprint! Good luck, and let us know if you get a response. If you do not speak Japanese, maybe someone here could translate your email for you. Osu!
smoothsake
05-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Check your local library and then check libraries farther away.
Its not allowed to make torrent requests on this forum or ask for a scanned copy. There was an original for sale on Ebay if i am correct for 199 euro or so... Check Ebay at regular intervals and they do pop up there...
If your german is any good you can pick up a cheap copy on the net (they are in abbundance)....
You are correct, there is only 1 printing of this book (1979, Japan Publications Inc.)
Osu
schuyler
05-04-2009, 07:41 PM
FYI:
"The Universal Copyright Convention specifies that copyrights should run for the life of the author plus (at least) 25 years (which is sufficient to protect a work during the lifetime of the author and the minority of the author's children)."
Source: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/okbooks.html#whatpd
Bloke
05-05-2009, 08:53 PM
Bottom Line is if you really want it then you will pay for it - I did.
Book collectors arent the only people who sell on rare goods at inflated prices - it happens in all markets - thats economics for you.
Bottom Line is if you really want it then you will pay for it - I did.
Do you have two copies now then ?
Osu
[...] If your german is any good you can pick up a cheap copy on the net (they are in abbundance)....
Really? :eek: Point the way... I'll try using google translate!
PS. I first read it when I borrowed it from the local library.
Really? :eek: Point the way... I'll try using google translate!
PS. I first read it when I borrowed it from the local library.
Friend of mine bought an english version (ex-library book) from the library for 1 dutch guilder... (1 gulden) thats about 45 euro cent ... Its very badly used and they redid the cover and plastified it but its very good readable.....
german version for sale...
http://www.amazon.com/Kyokushin-Karate-Weg-Masutatsu-Oyama/dp/3921508231/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241561476&sr=8-1
http://www.alibris.co.uk/search/books/qwork/-392150823/used/Der%20Kyokushin%20Karate%20Weg
http://www.vanstockum.nl/product/1008050/Der-Kyokushin-Karate-Weg.html
Osu
p.s. i found a pdf file once online (german version)... but cant seem to find it anymore...
Bloke
05-06-2009, 10:35 AM
Do you have two copies now then ?
Osu
Ah Good Point
I only have the one copy which was bought for me but I have paid a lot for other books so the general point still stands.
About 6-8 yrs ago I have seen some copies on the net at very reasonable prices ($14.99 -if I remember correctly) and I think (not sure) Shihan Thomas Flynn was selling some at these low prices. Not sure what's happening now and can't find anything on the net anymore.
Ah Good Point
I only have the one copy which was bought for me but I have paid a lot for other books so the general point still stands.
:)
Some of the prices are rediculously high (try and find a first print of advanced karate (purple cover, not the green one) in mint condition with slipcase... i have seen it go near 1000 US dollars)... its a supply and demand thing i guess...
I have a list atm of books that i am looking for that i cant find anything about as far as i can see on the net or are hard to come bye in general.... (all kyokushin or related)
Osu
Book wish list:
Adamy, Istvan: Kyokushin Karate I
Adamy, Istvan: Kyokushin Karate II
Adamy, Istvan: Kyokushin Karate III
Arneil, Steve & Dowler, Bryan: Better Karate
Collins, Howard: The Absolute Karate - Applications of Kyokushin
Collins, Howard: The Kyokushin Knockdown Karate Book
Cook, David C:. Power Karate 1
Cook, David C:. Mas Oyama's Kyokushin Karate
Cook, David C:. Power Karate Vol.3
Lowe, Bobby: Mas Oyama's Karate
Lowe, Bobby: Kyokushin Karate Self Defence Techniques
Nakamura, Tadashi: Karate Kyohon
Nakamura, Tadashi: One Day One Lifetime
Nakamura, Tadashi: The Human Face Of Karate
Perez, Fernando: Kyokushin Karate Tradicio y evolucion en busca de la eficacia
Perry, Frank: The Complete Karate Handbook
Pinero, Antonio: Kyokushinkai Karate
Royama, Hatsuo: Karate Towa Nanika (What is Karate?)
Sancho, Armand: Karate Do Kyokushinkai vol 1 - Tecnica, Kata, aplicaciones
Sancho, Armand: Karate Do Kyokushinkai vol 2 - Tecnica superior, Kata, Kumite
Wedel, Michel: Kyokushin Karate-Training And Fighting
Grimstahl, Johny: Karate Kyokushinkai: Groundtekniker
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Street Fight Karate 1
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Street Fight Karate 2
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Street Fight Karate 3
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Susurai Karate 1
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Susurai Karate 2
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Fighting Karate
Ashihara, Hideyuki: More Fighting Karate
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Karate, Een Nieuwe Benadering
Ashihara, Hideyuki: Life Story
Ashihara, Nippon Sports Mook: Ashihara's Autobiography
Ashihara, Tsuba Books & Bjerrekaer, J: The Word of Life
Goda, Yuzo: Kyokushin Karate Nyumon
Kazumi, Hajime: Kyokushin Karate - Challenge and Victory
Kazumi, Hajime & Iwasaki, Tatsuya: Shinseki Real Karate Bible
Nishiyama, Toru: Ashihara Karate Jissen Sabaki & Manga & DVD
Nygren, Hakan: Karate - Tavling & Coaching
Oishi, Daigo: Kicks of Muramasa
Oishi, Daigo: Kyokushin Karate Oishi Dojo
Sulaiman, Hussein: The Principles And Basics Of Karate
Tony Flynn: Budo Brain, Kyokushin Karate activity book & Study guide
If anyone knows where to get any of these, please feel free to drop me a line here on the board...
Osu
Osu!
Boy, am I kicking myself. I had about thirty Kyokushin books, some very old, all in good condition and most signed by the author including one by Sosai himself. I sold them all for a snip when I joined Enshin.
The money was useful - it paid for some essential kit we needed - but looking at prices quoted now for some of them I was sitting on a nice little retirement fund!
Oh well. That's life!
Gary
Osu!
Boy, am I kicking myself. I had about thirty Kyokushin books, some very old, all in good condition and most signed by the author including one by Sosai himself. I sold them all for a snip when I joined Enshin.
The money was useful - it paid for some essential kit we needed - but looking at prices quoted now for some of them I was sitting on a nice little retirement fund!
Oh well. That's life!
Gary
Osu Gary,
Do you still know some of the titles ?
Osu
Osu!
Boy, am I kicking myself. I had about thirty Kyokushin books, some very old, all in good condition and most signed by the author including one by Sosai himself. I sold them all for a snip when I joined Enshin.
The money was useful - it paid for some essential kit we needed - but looking at prices quoted now for some of them I was sitting on a nice little retirement fund!
Oh well. That's life!
Gary
<Groooaaaaannnn> :( I hope they went to a good home.
Were you purging?
Osu! Ksan
All the usual suspects! Everything in English by Mas.Oyama. Brian Fitkin, Steve Arneil, Dave Cook etc Plus some US Oyama Karate and Ashihara books.
No point crying about it now.
Osu! bobh
Not really - I decided to change so wanted to focus on the new stuff. They were in a box in the attic and I just thought they'd be better being read by someone. We put half the money into new armguards and the rest to a good cause.
Gary
powerof0ne
05-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Ah Good Point
I only have the one copy which was bought for me but I have paid a lot for other books so the general point still stands.
Good points being made Bloke. One of my uncle's owns a used book store and deals primarily in 1st, 2nd, etc. editions and/or rare books to make a living off of. I think that most people that pay such prices don't mind paying them to begin with because they want the actual book, not some scanned copy.
smoothsake
05-06-2009, 04:48 PM
Basic rule of supply / demand.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Basic_supply_demand.png
Osu! smoothsake,
Which line, red or blue? :)
I would say more like this one: http://www.2dcurves.com/exponential/h11expi2ax.gif :(
Osu!
smoothsake
05-06-2009, 07:31 PM
Not my picture... :) demand is the blue line, supply is the red line.
Bloke
05-07-2009, 08:59 AM
Ksan
Try here -
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=tadashi+nakamura&bsi=30&x=62&y=12&prevpage=1
I just did a search for Tadashi Nakamura and all three of the books you wnat are on here. I also suspect you will find many of the others.
I just bought "The Human Face of Karate" from the Seido website before Christmas. Now I can't find the store.... the old url I had is no longer coming up. :-/
Btw, thanks for posting your list ksan. I can just tack it onto mine. ;)
I just bought "The Human Face of Karate" from the Seido website before Christmas. Now I can't find the store.... the old url I had is no longer coming up. :-/
Btw, thanks for posting your list ksan. I can just tack it onto mine. ;)
Show me your have and want lists and ill show you mine ;)
Osu
Ksan
Try here -
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=tadashi+nakamura&bsi=30&x=62&y=12&prevpage=1 (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=tadashi+nakamura&bsi=30&x=62&y=12&prevpage=1)
I just did a search for Tadashi Nakamura and all three of the books you wnat are on here. I also suspect you will find many of the others.
Osu
Thank you for that Bloke, how was the party monday... to bad i couldnt make it... i heard it was the best ever... ;)
Osu
Bloke
05-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Osu
Thank you for that Bloke, how was the party monday... to bad i couldnt make it... i heard it was the best ever... ;)
Osu
Cant fail with a bouncy castle :)
Cant fail with a bouncy castle :)
No doubt! Once at my Sempai's kid's party, while the kids were having their ice cream, a bunch of us went in (we were secretly wishing to anyway). It turned into a hysterical time with a little sparring, grappling, and laughing. Having kids is such a great excuse to re-live childhood. :) Osu!
sandman
05-07-2009, 09:07 PM
No doubt! Once at my Sempai's kid's party, while the kids were having their ice cream, a bunch of us went in (we were secretly wishing to anyway). It turned into a hysterical time with a little sparring, grappling, and laughing. Having kids is such a great excuse to re-live childhood. :) Osu!
Running around in the woods with my kids reminds me of how much fun it is to turn up bugs under rocks, catch worms, and otherwise while away the hours doing something completely pointless. Much better than going to work and stressing about bills...
Cant fail with a bouncy castle :)
:)
Show me your have and want lists and ill show you mine ;)
Osu,
I'll put that together!
Osu,
I'll put that together!
Cool, i have to do one aswell... am somewhere in the neighbourhood of 70 orso... i already bought and unwanted double recently....
Osu
:)
Arneil, Steve & Dowler, Bryan: Better Karate
Is this 'Better Karate' or 'Modern Karate'? I have got an extra copy of 'Modern Karate that was given to me by a friend to find a good home for it. Ksan - it's your if this is the book you're looking for.
Tony Flynn: Budo Brain, Kyokushin Karate activity book & Study guide
http://www.greenmountaindojo.com/Resources.htm
Hope this helps!
Is this 'Better Karate' or 'Modern Karate'? I have got an extra copy of 'Modern Karate that was given to me by a friend to find a good home for it. Ksan - it's your if this is the book you're looking for.
http://www.greenmountaindojo.com/Resources.htm
Hope this helps!
Osu DKKC,
Thank you for the offer, i have 2 copies of modern karate (english and dutch). I thought "better karate" was a different book, but some of the kyokushin books have been published under two or three names... i need to check that out to make sure. And i have emailed Shihan Toni Quinn yesterday and today, he is sending me his book.... Thanks for helping out though :)
Osu
ksan
No problem ksan. I never heard of 'Better Karate' - if you do find it I'm curious to find out more details! Please keep me informed.
Osu!
No problem ksan. I never heard of 'Better Karate' - if you do find it I'm curious to find out more details! Please keep me informed.
I was thinking about writing, "Just ok Karate", "Barely average Karate" or maybe, "So-so Karate". There seems to be a huge market for it... :D
Osu!
Osu!
I was thinking about writing, "Just ok Karate", "Barely average Karate" or maybe, "So-so Karate". There seems to be a huge market for it... :D
Osu!
Osu!
How about "Karate For Dummies"? :D
OSU-EN2
Osu!
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Karate/dp/0028638328/ref=pd_sim_b_1/185-1694261-3878523
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764553585
Market sure is filling up fast! ;)
Osu!
Osu!
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Karate/dp/0028638328/ref=pd_sim_b_1/185-1694261-3878523
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764553585
Market sure is filling up fast! ;)
Osu!
Osu!
Damn - beaten to it again! :p
Osu!
Osu!
I was thinking about writing, "Just ok Karate", "Barely average Karate" or maybe, "So-so Karate". There seems to be a huge market for it... :D
Osu!
I`d go for So-so karate... sounds best ;)
Osu!
I`d go for So-so karate... sounds best ;)
Shall I put you down for a 1000 copies then, Ksan? (And the same for Bloke and Bobh too! :D)
Osu!
sandman
05-10-2009, 07:28 PM
I`d go for So-so karate... sounds best ;)
Meh - sounds ok.... ;)
Osu!
Shall I put you down for a 1000 copies then, Ksan? (And the same for Bloke and Bobh too! :D)
Osu!
:)
Actually ... maybe you should go for "Not-so-much-karate"..... as a title
Osu!
:)
Actually ... maybe you should go for "Not-so-much-karate"..... as a title
Excellent! I can include a recipe for my Blueberry Swirl; plans on how to build a birdhouse; and a rambling diatribe on the evils of cirrus clouds.
Off-shore millions here I come! :D
Osu!
Osu!
Excellent! I can include a recipe for my Blueberry Swirl; plans on how to build a birdhouse; and a rambling diatribe on the evils of cirrus clouds.
Off-shore millions here I come! :D
Osu!
Sounds more autobiographical now... :p
p.s. let me know if you need me to set up a numbered swiss bank account for you....
I'll have a piece of whatever you guys are eating. :D
sandman
05-10-2009, 11:57 PM
I'll have a piece of whatever you guys are eating. :D
I think it's Dent's blueberry swirl...
Osu!
p.s. let me know if you need me to set up a numbered swiss bank account for you....
Excellent, Ksan! Shall we begin Caribbean island shopping now? ;)
Osu!
smoothsake
06-28-2009, 04:35 PM
I just bought a copy of Sosai's The Kyokushin Way for about $63, there's one more at $64... the rest are in the $170 range for "Very Good" condition. I suggest if someone wants this book to act fast. I believe these sellers will only ship within the US.
Half.com (http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQprZ4796006QQcpidZ1187356515)
coopwaldo
06-28-2009, 05:36 PM
i just looked on amazon.com....they have one for 49.95
I just bought a copy of Sosai's The Kyokushin Way for about $63, there's one more at $64... the rest are in the $170 range for "Very Good" condition. I suggest if someone wants this book to act fast. I believe these sellers will only ship within the US.
Half.com (http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQprZ4796006QQcpidZ1187356515)
i just looked on amazon.com....they have one for 49.95
Good finds. Let's see what the condition is...