Dorsini
07-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Out of curiousity, how is the gedan mawashi geri differs from each knockdown style.
|
View Full Version : Gedan Mawashi Geri Dorsini 07-27-2009, 03:06 PM Out of curiousity, how is the gedan mawashi geri differs from each knockdown style. Dent 07-27-2009, 03:12 PM Osu! Out of curiousity, how is the gedan mawashi geri differs from each knockdown style. I think that's an impossible question, Dorsini. It varies from person to person, not group to group. Build, flexibility, power and application are going to depend on the individual. Osu! Dorsini 07-27-2009, 05:59 PM Ok, that is true. When search for videos on ashihara, kyokushin, seidokaikan, and enshin. It just could be me, I see that their chamber is alot different. I see your point. Thank you, Osu!!! Dent 07-27-2009, 06:24 PM Osu! Ok, that is true. When search for videos on ashihara, kyokushin, seidokaikan, and enshin. It just could be me, I see that their chamber is alot different. I see your point. Thank you, Osu!!! I think that many people from the same Dojo/ same Sensei/ Shihan show strong similarities, but I think that system wide generalizations are unlikely. I am totally willing to learn though. Can you post examples? Osu! cdsbob 07-27-2009, 06:29 PM I think that's an impossible question, Dorsini. It varies from person to person, not group to group. Build, flexibility, power and application are going to depend on the individual. well i agree because one of the sempai at my dojo does the gedan mawashi geri differently then me. he uses the basic of the brazilian kick when he throws a gedan mawashi geri ( his kick land on top of the thigh not the side ) when most of us just do the regular mawashi geri on the side. MilkManX 07-27-2009, 07:09 PM Osu-EN1 It is still the same kick though. The angle is just different. I think its a more person to person. The only one I notice that is really different is when you go Thai(follow through) vs Karate(snap) style round. Osu-EN1 kakatootoshi 07-27-2009, 07:14 PM Do not generalise. Dent 07-27-2009, 09:09 PM Osu! Do not generalise. Like an old school teacher once said to me. "I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!" :D Osu! Mas 07-27-2009, 09:50 PM Osu-EN1 It is still the same kick though. The angle is just different. I think its a more person to person. Osu-EN1 Osu, As when to applying the technique its a matter of what the outcomes you want or expecting from your opponent AND what following technique you will apply. If the kick lands on top of the thigh it is when most people have another technique of footwork to follow because the opponent might fall or lean forward, losing balance. If applied on the side, obviously the opponent will lean to the side. Most times the angle is one of the most important highlights when applying the gedan mawashi, in order to off-balance the opponent and the stronger it is the more effective.... cdsbob 07-27-2009, 10:31 PM well said Masedi Osu, As when to applying the technique its a matter of what the outcomes you want or expecting from your opponent AND what following technique you will apply. If the kick lands on top of the thigh it is when most people have another technique of footwork to follow because the opponent might fall or lean forward, losing balance. If applied on the side, obviously the opponent will lean to the side. Most times the angle is one of the most important highlights when applying the gedan mawashi, in order to off-balance the opponent and the stronger it is the more effective.... MilkManX 07-28-2009, 12:11 AM Osu-EN1 Exactly what I mean. It all depends on the situation and the follow up. Thanks for elaborating more. Osu-EN1 Dorsini 07-28-2009, 02:15 PM I thought it would be a good topic to talk about. I appoligize. Dent 07-28-2009, 03:32 PM Osu! I thought it would be a good topic to talk about. I appoligize. No need to apologize, I think the the thread can still be very useful, Dorsini. Can we ask what works for different people within the rules of their competitive sphere? For example, I find that Gedan Mawashi in Kyokushin competition is almost always a kick, while under the Ashihara/ Enshin rules it is very useful as part of a grab and sweep. Different angles and applications. Osu! Dean 07-28-2009, 04:20 PM i think the most effective way of throwing the low kick in a kyokushin competition is to lift your knee reasonably high and then come down on to the thigh rather than just scything in from the side. When fighting against an opponent who is fighting in an orthodox stance ie left foot forward, a liver punch and thigh kick is an incredibly simple yet effective combination. Although constant repitition to get it right is still required. MilkManX 07-28-2009, 06:03 PM Osu-EN1 Dent, Sometimes is the kick and then a sweep! :D cdsbob 07-28-2009, 06:22 PM just look at Shokei Matsui for the gedan mawashi sweep and Hajime Kazumi for the gedan mawashi geri Dorsini 07-29-2009, 07:05 PM I think this kick in kyokushin, is very good for people to use who have a very low center of gravity. cdsbob 07-29-2009, 07:59 PM i won a tourny in calgary thx to the gedan mawashi.. my opp. didn't block the first, the second and the third was fatal to his leg. Mas 07-30-2009, 04:55 PM Osu, One effective way of applying the gedan mawashi is using speed, by applying it twice or more on the same leg, dependng on the speed, one wil actually off-guard his opponent because tey'd try to block the it with their hands . But if unfortunately you get an opponent who is quick with rotation or leg-shifting, then you have a challenge. it should not be much of a challenge if you can also alternate the legs and techniques, in that way you dont get beat down. Can someone please assist me with more gedan mawashi techniques, with combinations please. Osu-EN1 cdsbob 07-30-2009, 05:03 PM what you should do is some shadow boxing like 2-3 minutes. be in front of the mirror and be on th eleft stance then switch to the right stance kick, switch to left kick etc... when you feel confortable try it on the heavy bag .. that's what i do .. Bardock 07-30-2009, 06:57 PM I'm not entirely sure if I'd try learning combinations like that. As I tend to do techniques different when I've got something, as in a bag or sparring partner, stopping my techniques rather than hitting thin air. Or to say it even simpler, I need a physical target rather than an imagined one. cdsbob 07-30-2009, 07:24 PM i was like you before hated hiting the air.. not physical target but then my master told me that when you train in front of the mirror you can actually look at you self, you can see what you are doing wrong.. the actual purpose is not the shadow spar in front of a mirro .. the purpose of doing it in front of a mirror is to study the mecanic of the movement you are trying to do. for exemple : i use to throw hard gedan mawashi geris on the heavy bag and i wasn't using the mirror to look at it.. but when i started i realized that i wasn't keeping a low center of gravity + i was leaning back + my hip was rotating too slowly.. so i started working on that ( i am still working on it today tho ) and i can feel and see a huge difference.. but you should ask a black belt they'd know more then me.. Bardock 07-30-2009, 07:29 PM That's still not my point. My point is, if you're learning the technique for the first time.. Doing it in a way which you have no idea whether will be practically plausible or not just doesn't cut it. When it comes to perfecting it, I'm perfectly with you though. Nix 08-02-2009, 11:40 AM It is my impression that mawashi geri in kihon is a little bit different between Kyokushin and Ashihara, but at the end of the day it is still the "same" kick. I was taught to chamber the leg by raising it 45° straight to the side, instead of pushing the knee forwards. The knee and the foot should be at the same height, and the leg should travel in a wide circle and hit the target at a 90° angle for maximum impact. Then of course there's the deal about pivoting on the standing foot and using the hip, but that's probably universal. In kihon, we always let the leg travel over the center line, and pull the leg home the same way it got out. In kumite or sabaki excercises, there is not just one right way to perform a gedan mawashi geri. Sometimes I aim for the front, sometimes I kick downwards, other times it can be used to floor the opponent by kicking/pushing the back of the thigh... There are tons of applications. bobh 08-02-2009, 04:04 PM 10 different people, at least 10 different leg kicks jcc 08-02-2009, 05:40 PM 10 different people, at least 10 different leg kicks Osu! I use at least 3 or 4 different versions of the kick, depending on my opponent and what I wish to achieve - eg fast, snappy kick as a counter or to disturb their rhythm, full-power kick to the side of the thigh or done from an angle onto the front of the thigh, or sweeping gedan if I need a quick breather! :D Osu-EN1 Mas 08-02-2009, 09:13 PM 10 different people, at least 10 different leg kicks Depending on which foot/leg you put in front.... Let's put left: Moving forward with the right as if it's the leg that wil kick then swopping immediately with the left, using it for the kick. The inside of the thigh is more of the target, hitting it twice with one leg. This can be done alternating the legs. Alternatively, if your opponent has his right foot in forward, put your left foot forward. 123tca 08-06-2009, 03:39 AM I think a good fighter will use his/her Gedan Mawashi differently for different circumstances....various angles etc. Depends what the fighter thinks is needed at that moment of execution. You shoul be able to use it several ways is my point. Wow I am rambling a bit osu! ODL_26 08-08-2009, 10:04 PM I had some questions on lo kicks, but it seemed that it was better to post it in this thread instead of starting another one. My style only uses mawashi geri and yoko geri (aimed at the knee) for leg kicks. We practice them in kihon, for self defense purpose only and don't use them in sparring. But, I've had the chance to try a few kyokushin and muay thai classes and kept training "the low kick" on the bags at my gym... The problem is that I often have a hard time trying to figure out how to include the kick in combinations on the bag. Any ideas ? kakatootoshi 08-08-2009, 10:16 PM I had some questions on lo kicks, but it seemed that it was better to post it in this thread instead of starting another one. My style only uses mawashi geri and yoko geri (aimed at the knee) for leg kicks. We practice them in kihon, for self defense purpose only and don't use them in sparring. But, I've had the chance to try a few kyokushin and muay thai classes and kept training "the low kick" on the bags at my gym... The problem is that I often have a hard time trying to figure out how to include the kick in combinations on the bag. Any ideas ? One-two punch, Gedan Mawashi Geri. Practise and understand this first. ODL_26 08-08-2009, 10:44 PM Yes, that is pretty much the only combination I've been doing so far. Not sure if I do it right though, but I manage to use it well enough ( I guess!) when I spar with non-karate friends. kakatootoshi 08-08-2009, 10:48 PM One-two, kick with the rear leg. One-two, kick with the front leg. Kick inside. Kick outside. Double kick. Faint kick. Kick while moving to different directions. They are all still the simple one-two punch, kick. sandman 08-09-2009, 02:54 AM One-two, kick with the rear leg. One-two, kick with the front leg. Kick inside. Kick outside. Double kick. Faint kick. Kick while moving to different directions. They are all still the simple one-two punch, kick. ...and kick, one-two kakatootoshi 08-09-2009, 03:03 AM but I manage to use it well enough ( I guess!) when I spar with non-karate friends. That is a good start. If you want to train or fight under Kyokushin rules it would be better to fight with people who train Kyokushin, if available. DrNo 08-10-2009, 11:32 AM My Shihan (who is part of the IKO2 technical committee) is usually very strict about how to do a technique in kihon or kata but he also says that you can vary it in numerous of ways when it comes to application or kumite and you have to find the way that works best for you. Kihon and kata are more about form and disciplin and not always the most effective way to perform a kick or punch. I would argue that its more about training your body so you get perfect control over it. Kihon and kata also change over time and not seldom politics get in the way and it is decided that something should be done in a certain way. sandman 08-10-2009, 12:14 PM My Shihan (who is part of the IKO2 technical committee) is usually very strict about how to do a technique in kihon or kata but he also says that you can vary it in numerous of ways when it comes to application or kumite and you have to find the way that works best for you. Kihon and kata are more about form and disciplin and not always the most effective way to perform a kick or punch. I would argue that its more about training your body so you get perfect control over it. Kihon and kata also change over time and not seldom politics get in the way and it is decided that something should be done in a certain way. I think there are certain mechanical principles involved in doing kihon that will always apply, no matter how you "personalize" the technique. For example, you can alter mawashi geri by changing the target (jodan, gedan, etc..), the striking surface (shin, instep, ball of foot, tip of toe, etc...), the angle of delivery (coming up at a 45 deg angle, or down at an angle, or horizontal), etc... All of those things can vary according to the situation, the individual opportunities that arise during kumite or a fight. However there are certain things that should rarely, if ever, be modified on a mawashi geri if one can help it - like chambering the leg to the side, rotating on the ball of the support foot, striking "through" the target, keeping the hands up, etc... Its important to keep those key principles in mind when practicing kihon to make sure they become 2nd nature. Those are the keys that will ensure maximum power. Then in kumite and sparring drills you can experiment with the other stuff. As I mentioned in another post this morning, I noticed recently that I wasn't chambering my mawashi geri correctly - now I'm working on it every chance I get. Osu! Dent 08-10-2009, 01:19 PM Osu! I think there are certain mechanical principles involved in doing kihon that will always apply, no matter how you "personalize" the technique. For example, you can alter mawashi geri by changing the target (jodan, gedan, etc..), the striking surface (shin, instep, ball of foot, tip of toe, etc...), the angle of delivery (coming up at a 45 deg angle, or down at an angle, or horizontal), etc... All of those things can vary according to the situation, the individual opportunities that arise during kumite or a fight. However there are certain things that should rarely, if ever, be modified on a mawashi geri if one can help it - like chambering the leg to the side, rotating on the ball of the support foot, striking "through" the target, Interesting, Sandman. Shouldn't we make our individual Kihon match our fighting kicks? IE: Instead of one way for basic training, and then 8 ways of Kumite kicking, wouldn't it be better to identify our Kumite kicks, then break them down and practice them during Kihon training. Taking the front leg inside up-kick as an example: No chamber, minimal rotation, and follow through only to a point, so as to follow up with speed. If I don't practice this in during my own Kihon, it goes to noodle in Kumite. Osu! sandman 08-10-2009, 02:08 PM Osu! Interesting, Sandman. Shouldn't we make our individual Kihon match our fighting kicks? IE: Instead of one way for basic training, and then 8 ways of Kumite kicking, wouldn't it be better to identify our Kumite kicks, then break them down and practice them during Kihon training. Taking the front leg inside up-kick as an example: No chamber, minimal rotation, and follow through only to a point, so as to follow up with speed. If I don't practice this in during my own Kihon, it goes to noodle in Kumite. Osu! True enough - the "situational" variations also definitely need practice. But I think the foundational mawashi geri is the most important one, and as such deserves the most attention. Delivering that perfect-form powerful kick can end the fight. When you get the opportunity to deliver it you've got to be able to take advantage of it - you don't want to blow that chance because you haven't practiced using those more powerful mechanics enough. As mentioned in another thread I found after watching the Superfights videos that I was scooping my mawashi geri. I had several opportunities to really damage my opponent's leg, but I blew it by delivering weak kicks. I had been letting the mechanics of my kick slide during practice. Now I've got some catching up to do - I need to focus on making that chambering automatic so I can deliver it with full power when I need to. My focus, at least for a while, will be to drill it that way as much as possible. You are right - the other variations still need attention - I will still work on them, but this "proper" method is going to get the bulk of my attention. I think it still makes sense to focus on that so-called "correct" version during the kihon portion of class and work on other variations in solo training and/or during partner drills. However I suppose its up to the individual - depends on how much time you have to devote to solo training, how much kihon practice you do in class, how engrained those proper mechanics already are in your technique, etc... Dent 08-10-2009, 02:16 PM Osu! I think it still makes sense to focus on that so-called "correct" version during the kihon portion of class and work on other variations in solo training and/or during partner drills. However I suppose its up to the individual - depends on how much time you have to devote to solo training, how much kihon practice you do in class, how engrained those proper mechanics already are in your technique, etc... Sounds like I know what to do tonight. :) Osu! 123tca 08-11-2009, 05:35 AM Nix, I think what you said is accurate... |