CLINICAL INFORMATION
Severe back spasm with bilateral leg pain.
REPORT
At L1 / 2 there is early disc dehydration with a very shallow posterior disc bulge but not compression of the neural structure.
Normal discs at L2 / 3
At L3 / 4 there is early disc dehydration with a small anterior disc bulge but only a shallow posterior protrusion slightly indenting the thecal sac but not compressing the nerve roots or causing stenosis.
At L4 / 5 there is early disc dehydration, a small generalised annular disc bulge, moderately indenting the thecal sac centrally and causing early stenosis of the lateral recesses causing crowding of the lateral recess roots but not directly compressing them.
Normal discs at L5/S1.
The bone marrow signal is normal and there is no loss of alignment or spondylolisis.
Normal appearances of the conus which terminates at L1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In August I had a severe back spasm that I now know was brought on through far too much randori as I stepped up my training with a view to entering this years Hokutoki. I initially felt the back give me some pain while squeezing tightly a triangle choke from mount, but mistakenly thought the pain, and subsequent aches would clear and decided to train through it - something I have always done with injuries, (not good i know - but I am an exercise addict ).
Initially I was told that it was most likely a muscle tear, or a sprained facet joint. Unfortunately an M.R.I. scan has revealed three prolapsed discs.
Since getting the results of the scan, I have been pretty low, ( and hardly even logged onto K4L ), as training is such a major part of my life ( six days a week for twenty plus years ). Feeling low, is just not in my nature as I have so much to be greatfull for and am not one for taking things for granted, however my back injury has seemed to make very little progression for many weeks now.
My rehab for the past three months has been twice weekly sessions with an oestiopath, ( costing so far over a thousand pounds and counting ), and swimming six days a week, ( and I am not a fan of swimming - at all ), along with tonnes of anti-inflam tablets and lots of ice sessions to my lower back.
I recently added some pilates exercises, as well as a gravity exercise to 'gap' the discs, whereby I hold my body in the air with my arms locked, and my legs hanging, ( similar to a gymnast in a starting position on the bars ). This week has seen some improvement!
Has anyone on K4L experienced a prolapsed disc, ( or three ), and got any advice that they could share - for example the very simple gravity exercise that I have only just started doing and wish that I had come across sooner.
I am considering purchasing an inversion table. Has anyone any experience of using one?
Lastly, I have been told that it is not uncommon for Judoka to hang upside down in the dojo following a training session, to gap the discs in the back. Does anyone have any information on this training method? Is it done on some kind of modified chin-up bar?
Any help with information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
PS : I promise to visit K4L more often, now things are looking up :)
Osu!
Mixmasta01
11-12-2009, 01:09 AM
Sorry for your injury and the inadvertent holt in your training! What estimate did they give you as far as resuming training?
sandman
11-12-2009, 01:22 AM
Osu!
Okamido, very sorry to hear about your injury - I wish I had some knowledge I could share with you but unfortunately I don't. I hope somebody here can help you out.
FredInChina
11-12-2009, 06:20 AM
Osu Okamido,
You seem have the problem well diagnosed and have taken appropriate remedy actions with sensible advice. Like Sandman, I feel for you and wish I could offer more.
It looks like a very good time to exercise ...patience!
Please be well and keep us informed of the progress.
Osu!
powerof0ne
11-12-2009, 06:22 AM
I wish I could offer you some knowledge as well. The last month or so I've been toying with the idea of using an inversion table myself. Please let me know how this goes for you. I've tried water therapy, massages, ice, painkillers, acupuncture, and many many other things. I'm still trying everything I can myself and wish you a speedy as can be recovery.
GJEC
11-12-2009, 07:12 AM
So sorry to hear that - noticed you hadn't posted much and now wishing I'd PM'd to see why.
I used 'inversion boots' for a while after falling through a floor at work and hurting my back. That seemed to offer some relief but it was more of a jarring type injury than prolapsed discs.
I can't offer anything further really I'm afraid except keep your chin up.
Gary
PS No book yet, but it's ordered.
kanku
11-12-2009, 08:02 AM
Osu Okamido!
Sorry to hear about your problems.
I don`t have the same as you but i do have my last disc missing, through wear or it was never there in the first place and athritis in the facet joints in that area..combined it causes my back to go into spasm queueing too long, or walking.
Your re-hab looks very sensible but i would also consider a period of complete rest....take a bit of time out perhaps
I went to see a guy who is a qualified acupunturist and a follower of chinese medicine, i am not saying acupuncture will help you, i am not sure it did me but the guy said that one can build the muscles up in that area with specialist help which in turn helps support the spine...maybe something like this could be of help to you?
I have also heard of injections directly into the disc but i am sure the back surgeon you have consulted is slightly more qualified than me:)
I wish you well, please keep us informed of your progress
P.S ask your doc about cox 2 inhibitors, vioxx got banned but in somebody young and healthy they could be of great benefit to you,short term.....something along the lines of etoricoxib or there is one that is definitely not banned at the moment!!
jgpt1
11-12-2009, 12:39 PM
IMO...you should consider seeing a physical or physio-therapist.
I treat similar injuries all the time (any PT does) and, though I read your MRI report, it doesn't substitute for personal medical advice.
You have socialized medical insurance...why not seek good sports physio?
It is possible you may benefit from a combination of technques possibly including: traction, manual therapy and maybe (depending on the results of an evaluation) some McKenzie and good core stabe exercises.
Obviously, as in any profession, there are the skilled and less-skilled so I would ask friends etc. However, at least from what I read of your MOI and MRI report, any physio should be able to help you.
Again, it is impossible to say w/out an evaluation. My advice is to see a physio.
Other options are a good chiro or a good OMD w/training in asian manual techniques like Sotai etc.
Good luck. In the meantime, move easy.
jcarmello
11-12-2009, 02:09 PM
I feel for you Okamido. I can relate to debilitating back issues. So far I have found that all the therapy, drugs and exercises have only exacarbated my injuries and now have created times of numbness and extreme pain. I was hoping for better results much sooner. Now I am having a hard time driving my car, and am only training twice per week when I feel good.
I will tell you this...do not injure the Lumbars any further!! Your intestinal health (and other things) is also at issue as I have found out and that will make you feel ill as well as sore!!!!!!
After training I can barely move the next morning, but I laugh at myself as my legs do funny things when my mind gives them direction. I wish I had some insight for you.
Rest up! and Take it easy for awhile or your injuries will destroy your quality of life!
Osu!
meguro
11-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Osu! Sorry to hear about your injury. If there has been a rupture, maybe something like this surgical procedure would help.
http://www.anulex.com/anulex_technology/xclose.asp
When hanging from a bar with your arms, rest your legs on a stool so that your legs are roughly perpendicular to your torso. This will relieve the natural curve in your spine and permit greater stretch in your lower back. Similarly, you can hang the upper half of your body over the hip pads of a glute-ham raise machine.
sandman
11-12-2009, 02:14 PM
Whatever you do Okamido, don't listen to this advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-_ZywDWRK8
:D
Okamido
11-13-2009, 03:01 PM
Mixmaster01, Sandman, FredInChina, PowerofOne, Gary - the man, Kanku, JGPT1, JCarmello, Meguro.
Thanks for your well wishes, and information - all greatly appreciated.
Osu!
FredInChina
11-13-2009, 03:03 PM
Mixmaster01, Sandman, FredInChina, PowerofOne, Gary - the man, Kanku, JGPT1, JCarmello, Meguro.
Thanks for your well wishes, and information - all greatly appreciated.
Osu!
Osu!
Dent
11-14-2009, 12:54 AM
Osu!
Sorry to hear it being so serious Okamido. :(
My recommendation is to find your best sport doctor for rugby, and go to him/ her.
Good luck with the recovery!
Osu!
Okamido
11-15-2009, 02:22 PM
......I can relate to debilitating back issues. So far I have found that all the therapy, drugs and exercises have only exacarbated my injuries and now have created times of numbneeass and extreme pain.....
Firstly, deeply sorry to hear of your injury / condition.
May I enquire, in your post you mentioned numbness.
A few weeks ago, I was told by my consultant to use a swiss ball and do some core strengthening exercises. I followed the advice the very same day, during which I felt a pull sensation to my lower back, of course immediately stopped exercising.
However the next day, ( and ever since ), I have had a numbness to the cheekbone area on the left side of my face! Thankfully it is not painfull, but it is a bit... annoying. The specialist says this is not exactly 'text book', but knows of patients that have had the same sensations and that this should resolve itself over time.
Is your numbness also to the face?
Osu!
Minas
11-15-2009, 02:38 PM
I have had a numbness to the cheekbone area on the left side of my face!
Osu!
wow, same thing here, but I have had it for a period on my right side. A real weird feeling. And after about two weeks it started to get less. I was a bit freaked out by it. It happened to start also when I woke up one morning soaked in sweat and with strange scars on my wrist. I don't even wanna know what I've been up to that night :D
jgpt1
11-15-2009, 02:50 PM
Numbness in the face is not a usual symptom w/the kind of condition in your MRI report.
Facial tingling/numbness may be indicative of injury to a cranial nerve(possibly CN 5), injury in the cervical plexus (neck area)m muscle Trps, possible involvement of other structures,etc. Again, impossible to say w/out an evaluation.
Who is your consultant? Core stabe exercises should not induce facial numbness.
With 3 months of rehab, generally for the condition in your MRI report, one would expect a complete or close to complete resolution. Of course, every situation is unique.
You do not want to mess around with neurological injuries. If you are experiencing increased signs/symptoms, you really should see a good physician and then, if appropriate, see a good physio. At this point, I'd see a physician first.
Okamido
11-18-2009, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the post jgpt1
---
For several years I regularly saw the same Osteopath. On a monthly basis she released, (cracked), the facet joints in my cervical spine, (neck) and thoracic spine, (middle back). Too much head-contact from sparring, takes a toll :(
Initially the Osteopath was convinced that my lower back stiffness, ( which was getting progressively worse leading up to when I actually collapsed with a severe spasm ), was a facet joint in my lumbar region that needed realignment and all of my treatment sessions was aimed at releasing this area.
Following the spasm episode, that had me flat out for two days on the floor, I was taken to a different Osteopath. Within two sessions I had full mobility once more and could touch my toes again for the first time in many months! This Osteopath, ( my current Osteopath ), has yet in all of my sessions, released ( cracked ) a facet joint, as he believes in deeply massaging the areas to loosen off the muscles rather than going straight into skeletal allignment work.
All is good thus far, and I am very pleased with twice weekly sessions that we have. He has just started working on my neck as well as the lumbar region. Hopefully this will make a difference to the numbness in the face.
I hope to be able to work some standup / striking work before Christmas. However, the Kudo grappling techniques will have to wait a good while yet.
Osu!
Okamido
11-18-2009, 12:53 PM
On a lighter note ....
:)
I had been considering getting an inversion table to help stretch my spine and gap the disks. However every morning I walk my little boy to school, at the same time taking my 6 month old also - in his pram for his morning sleep.
As we regularly cross the local park enroute, I noticed the childrens climbing frame and thought... hmmm maybe I dont need an inversion frame after all!
So once my little boy is in school, and my baby boy has fallen asleep, I have been doing my own modified inversion sessions on the childrens climbing frame when no one is about.
:)
However, apparently someone has just complained about this, so thats the end of that idea.
:(
I suppose it does look a strange sight, a 6ft 4inch bloke hanging upside down on a childrens climbing frame every morning at 10.00am!
:)
Osu!
sandman
11-18-2009, 12:55 PM
On a lighter note ....
:)
I had been considering getting an inversion table to help stretch my spine and gap the disks. However every morning I walk my little boy to school, at the same time taking my 6 month old also - in his pram for his morning sleep.
As we go across the local park, I noticed the childrens climbing frame and thought... hmmm maybe I dont need an inversion frame after all!
So once my little boy is in school, and my baby boy has fallen asleep, I have been doing my own modified inversion sessions on the childrens climbing frame when no one is about.
However, apparently someone has complained about this, so thats the end of that idea.
:(
I suppose it does look a strange sight, a 6ft 4inch bloke hanging upside down on a childrens climbing frame every morning at 10.00am!
Osu!
You weren't wearing a bat suit and a cape at the time, were you? :D
Okamido
11-18-2009, 12:59 PM
Lol
I have always been a massive fan of Batman!
:)
Osu!
FredInChina
11-18-2009, 03:50 PM
Glad to hear your back might not be as badly hurt as you feared; it is good you've had good advice and people to manipulate you properly.
Now you have Xmas as a timeline to look for to get back to some training --- very good!
Osu!
(...)apparently someone has just complained about this, so thats the end of that idea.(...)
?!? Why would anyone complain? Complain to who? Does hanging upside down break the laws of the UK land? Who will enforce it anyways? :confused:
You weren't wearing a bat suit and a cape at the time, were you? :D
That was funny!
jgpt1
11-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the post jgpt1
---
All is good thus far, and I am very pleased with twice weekly sessions that we have. He has just started working on my neck as well as the lumbar region. Hopefully this will make a difference to the numbness in the face.
I hope to be able to work some standup / striking work before Christmas. However, the Kudo grappling techniques will have to wait a good while yet.
Osu!
I am glad things are taking a turn for the better!! Best of luck!!