Taikyoku opening.

[Martin H]

the Taikykoku katas are not ideal to look to for bunkai. They were created as a simplified way to learn the pinans, and the pinans themselves were a simplified (and crippled since it was made to be taught to school classes as PE) way to learn kanku and Bassai.

But never the less, lets look at it.

1# formal yoi dachi
2# out with left leg, prepare for block by covering the groin with right hand, lifting left to the right ear.
3# turn into left zenkutsu dachi, block down left seiken gedan barai.
4# step forward, punch right seiken oy-tsuki.
5# turn 180 degrees and block gedan barai with your right hand.

OK, a few basics (gleefully stolen from Iain Abernathy)
1. The opponent comes at you from the front, NOT from the side. He does NOT come in with a formal stance with formal karate strikes, but with more unschooled street techniques. (think head butt, haymaker punch and knee to the groin rather than gyaku tsuki, Mawashi geri,uchiro geri or more advanced techniques). Bunkai is for typical street fight situations, not for dueling/sparring with fellow martial art experts.
2. Turns usually means that you are intended to get to that side/angle of the opponent, not neccecarily showing the correct method to get there. Taisabaki & footwork are not part of what kata teach, rather you have to know it to decipher the katas.
3. The opponent is armlength distance away (swinging punch range), possibly grabbing hold of you preparing to hold you/stop you from guarding yourself while punching you.
4. 180 degree turns are nearly always throws

One possible Bunkai:
1# The opponent grabs you by your right hand (with his left) preparing to strike you with his right.
2# you step out with your RIGHT leg (some older version of taikyoku and pinans do this infact), with the "groin proctecting" hand, being held and therefore not moved. The left hand lifted to the right ear covering from a haymaker. You should now stand at your opponents side, facing the same 90 degrees as in the kata, but getting there slightly differently.
3# pull the hitike hand, while striking his grabbing hand with your downward "block" -freeing yourself. The twist of the body into a crude zenkutsu dachi adds power to the "block" and helps you get free if he holds you hard.
If possible grab his sleeve with your "blocking" left hand after you have freed you right hand
4# Step into his armpit, pull his sleeve towards you strike his head and grabb it. (mayby turning the step into a hiza geri to the opponents side as a variation)
5# slip your arm over his head and neck, holding it with the "prepared" position from the gedan barai. step out 180 degrees, pulling his head down in the "block" making it a throw (I am at work and dont have access to by reference books, I look up what the throw is called later).
If you go out in a zenkutsu dachi like in the kata, you can make the opponent fall with back or back of head on your right/forward knee.

There: One possible interpretation for the opening move of the taikyoku/pinan ichi. Not perfect, but much more realistic than the old "turn left to do a gedan barai block on a opponent coming at you in formal stance from a real long distance (to give you room to do your step and technique), and then step in to strike him while he is stepping back (since you would be to close to strike him otherwise). then turn to block a new opponent coming at you from the other direction".

Comments? critizism?

I hope can understand my description :-(

[Spirit]

I'm on the side that blocks are truely grabs and joint breaks...

[Ninsho]

One bunkai I was taught for the opening of Taikyoku:

When you step into zenkutsu dachi, you first step into gyaku zenkutsu dachi. Your foot is placed just inside your opponents, therefore when snapping your hips to adjust from the gyaku to the forward position you can take away your opponent's balance and position on the floor. In this interpretation the gedan barai becomes a tetsui strike inside the thigh, and the oi tsuki either becomes gyaku tsuki, or you step forward and launch yourself through your opponent's position.

A very simple interpretation, and like all katas is probably only one of very many that can be applied here.

Osu!

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Originally Posted by Martin H

1# The opponent grabs you by your right hand (with his left) preparing to strike you with his right.
2# you step out with your RIGHT leg (some older version of taikyoku and pinans do this infact), with the "groin proctecting" hand, being held and therefore not moved. The left hand lifted to the right ear covering from a haymaker. You should now stand at your opponents side, facing the same 90 degrees as in the kata, but getting there slightly differently.
3# pull the hitike hand, while striking his grabbing hand with your downward "block" -freeing yourself. The twist of the body into a crude zenkutsu dachi adds power to the "block" and helps you get free if he holds you hard.

I like the whole idea but if he grabs your right hand with his left hand wont the haymaker will be coming at your left ear? You could make the whole scenario work quite nicely by covering up the left ear with a bent arm I guess but it just gets that bit further removed from the kata. Have I got it wrong?

Wait! It works if he grabs your right with his right & swings with his left which makes sense for him to do... kind of an arm drag to nullify attacks you might be planning from your right or left. That's a nice counter. Like it!

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by Aunty Ichigeki

I like the whole idea but if he grabs your right hand with his left hand wont the haymaker will be coming at your left ear? You could make the whole scenario work quite nicely by covering up the left ear with a bent arm I guess but it just gets that bit further removed from the kata. Have I got it wrong?

I was thinking that you protected your left ear with your lifted elbow/arm, not your hand.

Wait! It works if he grabs your right with his right & swings with his left which makes sense for him to do... kind of an arm drag to nullify attacks you might be planning from your right or left. That's a nice counter. Like it!

Not what I meant, but it works too.
Only problem is that then you step into his swing instead of away from it, like if he swings at your left ear (his right hand)

[iceman]

Nice explanation for a beginner like me, isnt the first move to look first before moving into stance. OSU! RTR

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Originally Posted by Martin H

I was thinking that you protected your left ear with your lifted elbow/arm, not your hand.

Gotcha! That would work.

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Martin H

Not what I meant, but it works too.
Only problem is that then you step into his swing instead of away from it, like if he swings at your left ear (his right hand)

hmmm Muai Thai Fighter step in the opponents attack so they can't use the full force? I can't follow your explanation but maybe it can help

[Satori]

Originally Posted by iceman

Nice explanation for a beginner like me, isnt the first move to look first before moving into stance. OSU! RTR

Absolutely! ALWAYS look before moving. There are only a few very specific exceptions in certain kata. What's the point of going into a position when you can't see what's happening there? You could be moving right into an attack!

I would definately take off some serious points in a kata competition if the person performing the kata didn't look before every movement

[Paedde]

Hmm have you ever thought about a takedown?

For example (I hope you understand what I mean...)

- An opponent choking you with both hands

- Then you grab his arms (the opening move of the kata) and pull them down

- Then do the first step to bring yourself in position

- Then the second to bring your opponent out of balance

- And then turn around and bring him to the ground

It's hard to explain for me because I'm not that familiar with the english language and I don't know some words... But maybe I can try that with a partner after our next training session and film it.

What do you think about this? Totally crazy?

[Satori]

Hah! That's pretty cool! Just goes to show there truly are infinitely many bunkai per move. Thank you!

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Satori

Hah! That's pretty cool! Just goes to show there truly are infinitely many bunkai per move. Thank you!

really? thank you

I really need to try this out, never thought that Kata can make that fun
I always thought "Oh no Kata again", but now I can't wait until I learn the next Kata

[Bloke]

Thats pretty good paedde - I have tried that before - its nice to know someone else thinks like me.

[Paedde]

And did it work?

But in my eyes the rest of the kata then has no sense, or is it just because it's the "beginner" kata?

Is the opening in pinan ichi the same? I'm really interested in Kata now, wow

[Bloke]

Id say yes to the Pinan ichi question. As to whether or not its a begginner kata - in terms of syllabus yes, but Ive been training for some time now and I still find new stuff in it (Ok I still get shown new stuff in it)

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Paedde

But in my eyes the rest of the kata then has no sense

How about the 180 degree leg sweeps?

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Bloke

Id say yes to the Pinan ichi question. As to whether or not its a begginner kata - in terms of syllabus yes, but Ive been training for some time now and I still find new stuff in it (Ok I still get shown new stuff in it)

Hmm is there a website where the moves of the katas are shown? I just want to see what's different after the opening, or I will wait until my sensei show me pinan ichi

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Satori

How about the 180 degree leg sweeps?

Yes that's the last thing in the Kata i tried to explain, but what after that?
Another opponent? Hmm

[Bloke]

And the rest of the Kata has lots of applications - after the third punch - the 90 degree turn. Get your sensei to tell you.