Chion Bo kata

[Satori]

Originally Posted by vapor

So by your own admission, you don't know the kata, then my question would be- where is the advice and criticism coming from?

That's a really stupid statement. It's the same as saying Ian Thorpe's (an ex-Olympic swimmer) swimming coach has to be better at swimming than Ian in order to give him advice on how to improve.

Originally Posted by vapor

Typically one would need to have experience and intimate knowledge to dispense those things...seeing it on a youtube clip, or even watching a senpai practicing are hardly substitutes for having the moves, meanings and philosophy engrained through countless hours of practice.

Intimate knowledge of what? This particular kata? Or perhaps be proficient at a range of other kata? Skills gained in one kata are tranferrable to another. You do not ever learn a completely new set of skills when learning a new kata. Kata is made up of individual techniques, each of which has a "right" way to be executed. If a kata consisting of 15 jodan uke's is taught to a beginner and I've spent 5 years drilling nothing but jodan uke, then aside from the foot movements and positioning, would I not be able to give advice on how the student could better the kata?

On a similar note, if I have mastered all the kata of my style and I then observe a practitioner of another style performing a kata which is unfamiliar to me, are you saying I could not give them advice because I haven't learnt their kata? What a load of garbage. I can still comment on their focus, I can still criticise their stance, I can still tell them they have too soft a kiai, I can still see they have a weak posture and I can still tell them they're not pivoting on the back foot.

Finally, everyone can tell if someone's doing a technique correctly. Even those unitiated in any training can tell if a technique was performed well. For this reason, although a common bystander can't give too much advice on the kata, they can still give accurate feedback like "your face was too tense" or "relax your shoulders".

Next up, I was going to post some videos of me performing some kata that I'm familiar with and that I enjoy performing. Hopefully something that people here could take something out of, and if I'm so bad then at least see what not to do. I was going to post it here not because you wanted proof, or because you wanted me to show what I can do or shut up, but because I enjoy performing and watching kata. I have a pretty busy life, so it's really only on weekends that I get an opportunity to film anything at all. I got some footage yesterday and was in the process of editing it for upload. I'm not happy with it and the quality was poor, but at least it was something. I took this whole thing as a fun opportunity to show people some stuff, but your aggressive attitude, and for some reason you've taken this whole thing personally, has made that impossible.

You've ruined this opporunity by trying to be clever and nasty, whereas you could had the chance to learn something or at least enjoy a performance. I also don't appreciate being hurried to do something when I'm doing it out of my own time (of which I don't have much free) and my own good will for someone I don't know. No, it's wasn't overdue.

Not everything's a conspiracy - learn to chill.

I've also seen this kata performed many, many times directly in front of me with my Sensei just teaching it to new yudansha, as well as giving advice to those who already know the kata. Like it or not, despite my having never performed it, I have some information to give. Do you find this intimidating or offensive?

Please keep that in mind.

supergroup7: I'll get back to you this evening with exactly what to do for each step. If this thread is closed by then you'll get a PM

[seienchin]

Ok - deep breath everybody, and let's take the agro down a notch.

Can I point out that this thread started because Supergroup7 was trying to help some of us understand which kata she was talking about. We were discussing something I call "star" kata, and she posted her kihon kata, and this one at the same time, so we could see them.

This was not a post where general critique was invited, although Supergroup7 has graciously accepted unsolicited feedback, including feedback from practitioners of other styles.

The post that has prompted me to respond, was so close to breaking rule 4, that if it was directed to any other member of the forum, I would be seriously thinking about moderating it. As it stands, because the post was directed at Vapor, who is a moderator, I will let it stand, lest it be seen as the moderators engaging in censorship. However, I felt obliged to post in response, so that other members and visitors to this forum know that the type of posting made above is not consistent with the forum rules, and is not representative of the friendly community we are trying to build.

Rule number 4:
4. Do NOT abuse other members. Get along with other members. Smile.

It is possible to disagree, and disagree vehemently, without breaking this rule.


Now - if Satori, Vapor, or anyone else has something to say about the kata, let's get the thread back on tracik.

[supergroup7]

supergroup7: I'll get back to you this evening with exactly what to do for each step. If this thread is closed by then you'll get a PM

Please, and Thank you, Satori. I appreciate learning how it is that you have seen this Bo kata performed, and the information that you can provide to me about it. I embrace your comments, Satori, because I strongly feel that I can improve in so many ways in the understanding, and application of my kata.

I've also seen this kata performed many, many times directly in front of me with my Sensei just teaching it to new yudansha,

Would it be possible for one of the yudansha of your dojo to allow you to video him/her doing the kata to be placed here on the forum? I would be so grateful for the opportunity to see someone else (who has experience in bo work) performing the kata. I am very young at Bo training, and I am in the position of training alone most of the time. Almost all of my training is done in my living room, dining room, and back yard by myself. I have spent much time on youtube watching various other arts manipulating their Bo, but it doesn't look the same as Kyokushin movements. It is really rare to find Kyokushin weapon performances, and information.

[supergroup7]

Seienchin, I agree that the level of discussion has gone into negative areas, and I appreciate your interjection.

I also believe that both Vapor, and Satori made good points about looking at videos of kata on the internet, and commenting upon them. I have never thought about all the various angles, and possibilities of such an action before now.

[Satori]

supergroup7: My bad, it is 15 - you were right. It's only the first kiai that's on the eigth count. As promised, check your PM's. Let me know if you didn't get two seperate PM's.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Would it be possible for one of the yudansha of your dojo to allow you to video him/her doing the kata to be placed here on the forum? I would be so grateful for the opportunity to see someone else (who has experience in bo work) performing the kata.

Well, I guess I could always ask. The way you've presented your case should make them sympathetic to your cause

[supergroup7]

Osu,

I have now been training with the Chion Bo kata for an extra year. It's amazing how much one can learn in that time period! As I progressed in my kata, I realized what an inefficient, and inaccurate demonstration video I had provided you. Of course, in my defense, I was hoping that someone else would respond to my efforts with a higher example of the Kata so that I could learn from it. At this present moment, I dread that other Kyokushin Ka would try to imitate my learning efforts and build up errors instead of good technique, so I removed the Chion Bo kata video from Youtube. In the future, I will replace it with a better version, but this will take some time as I am still training on the various specific aspects of this kata.

I would like it that I will be wearing a Black belt when I finally replace this Chion video with one that can be seen by others as a true "demonstration" video.

[supergroup7]

Osu

I have found this video of the Chion Bo Kata done by Daseidokid on Youtube..

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I AGREE

I feel that this kata is similar to where I would like to be when I've improved my performance.

OH.. I also noticed that although I had "removed" the Chion Bo kata from Youtube on my profile page, it seems that it is still accessible to watch on this thread. That's ok.. I'll try to capture my recent efforts at the kata just to show what I hope is good improvement. :-)

[supergroup7]

Osu

I have been working on improving my performance of this kata for a year now. I captured on video today. It is still a "work in progress", but I am hoping that my latest contribution shows more quality, and better technique than the earlier posting in this thread. It is my goal to bring it up to a black belt "demonstration" level soon.

You Tube

[Dent]

Osu!

(Admin note: Not sure why multiple copies are appearing. Not possible to edit down the numbers.)

Supergroup7, thanks for posting! Do you have anyone to practice Bo-Bo bunkai with? I found that to be the best way to really feel the angles and strike zones.

Osu!

[supergroup7]

Osu Dent,

I worked with editing, and I think that I solved the multiple copies problem.

As for Bo-Bo bunkai, or further knowledge.. I am happy to wait until my Sensei feels that it is time for me to progress in any direction that he wants.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by supergroup7

As for Bo-Bo bunkai, or further knowledge.. I am happy to wait until my Sensei feels that it is time for me to progress in any direction that he wants.

Starting to get to the time when you need to direct some of your own training, Supergroup7. Even if the training is informal, getting the feel of striking and blocking with the Bo gives the body information on how to hold, switch and move the weapon. Even taking a few swings at your trees will teach a lesson or two.

Osu!

[ksan]

Good performance on the bo, it looks really good

I could be wrong but on the block to the sides (when your in kokutsu dachi) your bo should be 100% vertical. (if i remember correctly)

Osu

[supergroup7]

Osu Dent, I will take your suggestions to heart. There are plenty of trees in my city.

Osu Ksan, I was taught to angle the block, perhaps it is one of those organization differences??

[ksan]

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Osu Ksan, I was taught to angle the block, perhaps it is one of those organization differences??

Osu,

Could be,.. i`ll look it up again to see and get it clear...

Osu

[supergroup7]

Osu Ksan,

It could be that I misunderstood my Sensei's instruction, or I over exaggerrated the angle, I am notorious for that. If so, I apologize.

Osu

[ksan]

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Osu Ksan,

It could be that I misunderstood my Sensei's instruction, or I over exaggerrated the angle, I am notorious for that. If so, I apologize.

Osu

No need to

Osu

[seienchin]

Great to see the second version! Again, thanks so much, with all you have on your plate, for making this video to share with us.