Prejudice

[Slayer]

Hey girls! Have you ever encountered situations where you were discriminated for being a girl? Dojo situations I mean.

[Lucy]

Well ive sat here n racked my brains for a wee while and i honestly can say i havent been discriminated against for being a girl. I get treated exactly the same as the men, pushed just as hard, and the same standard is expected of me as the guys. I been hit a fair few times, pushed to my limits (which is better than the guys most of the time) been made to cry but in the end i like it and keep coming back for more!

[Slayer]

That's great! In karate I have never been to a situation of discrimination too. But I have in other martial art I practised before. It was awful

[Lucy]

Really?! Thats pretty bad practice i say! Well hopefully i can say u wont find that in kyokushin!

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Discrimination in the dojo hasn't affected me. I try to be fair though... I think we have to be realistic about the way we fight & recognise the guys are fighting with a handicap when they fight us (they have to be careful about punching us in the chest for example... a big part of their usual game). Also, when I used to participate in serious tournament prep. if I was the only girl & the guys were all heavyweights I'd offer to work with the bag vs. hold the pad because I'd be flying across the room!

In Japan however I have never seen a woman on the corner of a men's tournament & I know at least one very high grade who is most insulted to see lower grade men put on while she's politely ignored. Can't say it bothers me, I'd rather be at ground level.

[blackdog]

From a guys point of veiw -

I havent seen any predjudice, though am sure it is out there.

I seem to be able to get my arse kicked just as easy by the women as i do by the men

As Aunty pointed out, the only thing i struggle with when sparring is where to hit sometimes. I'm tall, and if a girl is short and 'well endowed' , it doesnt leave me many options to attack. I tend to go for the legs then, do the girls find they get their legs attacked relatively more than the guys?

Sometimes if i have let a punch inadvertently get too close to the chest of a lady, they usually forgive me with a quick 'don't worry, its not the first time and won't be the last' - then they hit me back

Bren

[Slayer]

Yeah, that breast thing is really annoying.
but i dont think we have to make a fuss about it.
things are the way they are.

[Slayer]

The worse thing I have ever been to, is being on a dojo (that was not a karate dojo, some other martial art I wont even say the name) where you dont even get to do the same training as boys, even though you're capable, and they know it. They would just set me aside, training stupid things, while the others would do the real stuff. Even the new guys would train things that I wouldn, just for being a girl.
I just had it when a professor told me he had developed a system of self defense for women, and the firs thing about it was that it never used regular punching because women couldn do it. I mean, if I was on a martial arts dojo you would expect I would learn how to punch right? but no, not for women.
And if you would confront them about it, they would say it was just my imagination...

[helenosch]

To be honest, there's a difference: men punch harder than woman, like you said Aunty Ichigeki, sometimes it's better to work the bag because holding the pads for other guys isn't the best idea. But still, it's just that they punch harder, it's not that we couldn't do it. I had to do some selfdefense classes for my job and there were guys all bulked up not able to do a reasonable tzuki, but woman whom I wouldn't want to meet in the dark...
I guess it all comes down if you practice it. There's no way I'll ever be able to hit like some of our dojo but I hope to believe that I still can do some damage ;-)
What the breast is concerned? Do you girls never wear breast-protectors? Ever since I had it, never had problems with it and the guys punch happily away on my chest...

[Sonik]

To be honest i think the best self defense for women lies in groin strikes (kin geri, hiza geri and squeezing) mixed with submission techniques. Women are usually weaker in physicall terms than men so i believe the best aproach is to simulate weakness so that the male agressors underestimate them. For instance, a woman can pretend cooperation in the rape position and then apply an armlock or any other submission techniques. That's what i teach my sister and girlfriend (they don't train for real but they like to know a bit if selfdefense). I also advise women to carry a mace spray can (or a gun if you live in places such as South Africa or Brasil).

[RASor]

Osu Ladies,

With your permission. TIA.

I have a high regard for women fighters. True men may be stronger physically but women tend to compensate with better technique and strategy. Oftentimes men become to bold in their attacks that they sacrifice technique often charging into the fight whereas women tend to strategies moves to create an opening for an effective attack. This adds to the thrill of women fights. Also women have more fluid executions giving the smooth delivery of combinations. Lastly, women do Kata more seriously than men this is where the beauty of style comes in especially in reactive/impulse combat.

In Honbu training is led by Sensei Mae, a lady fighter, very good fighter. I, boldbhoy, and lots of other male fighters actually got hit by her famous Jodan Mawashi Geri. I cannot forget and I am sure the others wont.

So my great respect to women fighters. Osu!

[nova]

in our dojo i haven't seen any discrimination yet. but i also do ju-jitsu and there was one guy who was thinking he was superior to women. but he didn't train for a long time, he already left the dojo after a few months. but i think mostly people who practise martial arts for a while are people who are very respectfull.

[seienchin]

Hello all. I am something of an old-timer - have been in Karate since the early 1980's. without question here in Australia there was a lot of discrimination then. I remember one notable occasion when there were two teams announced for world tournaments in Kyokushin in Australia - the men's and the women's. the Mens were named and funded to go. The women were simply named. No funding. No support. No World Tournament.
Even before then, I was part of the argument when women in Kyokushin were not allowed full-contact tournaments, because it would harm our reproductive organs (I responded to that one with a groin kick, and asked my male colleages to respond in kind, and see which of us was still standing!! :-)
I finally got to do my very first full-contact tournament on my 30th birthday, after almost a decade of arguing the toss!

It is worth remembering that there are some (fortunately few) men who subconsciously define their masculinity as "that which women do not do". For them, if Karate is a manifestation of their masculine identity, then having women do it to is a contradiction, whether they know it consciously or not, and it is really freaky for them. At an instinctual level, they just feel it is WRONG. They don't choose this, it is just how they have been programmed to be. My advice- give such blokes a wide berth - you won't win them over, but there is no need to argue either. A wise karateka avoids the fight she can't win, both physically and spiritually. Maybe just seeing our dedication and strength will eventually wear them down.

All said, I think we have moved on a long way in 20 years and I am delighted to see the evolution and strengthening of women in Karate.

Osu

[Spirit]

Yes this is said,
My friend ansd fellow yudansha was the first B/B womens champion for AAU in the USA back in the very early 80's even though they had mens B/B division for year before!
I never could understand it.
Good thing time has set aside most of this B/S action!!!

[cecil667]

Just because we are girls doesnt mean that there is a huge difference in our skills,
honestly, when i first started kyokushin, the boys started taunting me about how girls would never get good at karate, well, i showed them.
When we had our gradings we had to have a full contact fight and the two boys i went up against got KO right away! After that i gained a lot of respect from the boys who taunted me.

[Deaken]

There was much descrimination in the past, but most of it went the way of the dodo as equality progressed. Not so much locally but in the organizations overall.....

It's still apparant though in the WT where the male fighters get their ticket and room paid for to participate but the women fighters have to pay their own way....

[cecil667]

Hmmm...for the ticket and room BOTH male and female should have to pay.

[Deaken]

I think that the point of a World Tournament is to get the best from around the world and let them compete with each other. Not everyone and not all countires have the same financial means to be able to attend, so by helping the WT fighters cover the cost you get a true representation of the best competitors instead of just "those that could afford to go".

I would suggest that both the Mens and Womens world tournament fighters get equally sponsored to participate.

[Raii]

There's little or no discrimination in our dojo, except for the occational person who refuses to 'hit girls'.
However, when our senpai tells us to do sit-ups or push-ups, women usually have to take five more than the men

Osu!

[DKKC]

I have experienced discrimination many times. People discriminate many times without even realising it. When I started karate in the club there were double standards with regards to the number of exercises men and women had to do. Beginners were at the same level when starting but after a few months the mem would get ahead. The explanation was that men were naturally stronger than women and they progressed faster. I believed it was because the standards for the men were higher and striving to achieve them made them better. Then, the focus was on the men when we trained for fighting. Many times the instructor wouldn't even look at the women and being corrected or shown how to do a technique was very rare. Of course the men were better fighters!!! Women had to watch and imitate and it depended very much on their level of understanding or talent and intelligence in that field. I got in many arguments with my instructor over my training and generally women's training in the dojo. And I had to end up taking it upon myself to do as many exercises as men do and to ask a lot of (meaningful) questions during sessions to be looked at and taught.

Things have changed and I believe they are much better, but I believe there still is discrimination - for example tournaments where men fight without shin protectors but women have to wear them!!!! I asked organisers why that was and the answer was either 'cose it's always been this way or 'cose women can get hurt easier than men!! Surely it's all relative - men kick/get kicked harder - shouldn't they use shin pads as well? Either both, or none - but when I see that women and novice wear pads while men don't it annoys me! Also - look at some of the referees/judges - the most experienced refs/judges are usually in the men categories - for the women you sometimes get the newbies, people who can't make a decision without looking up before raising a flag just to make sure they are the same as everyone else etc. And refs who can't really control a fight. And then everyone is surprised why poor decisions are being given in women's categories or why some fights get very scrappy, difficult to judge.