Which grade Kancho Matsui has (and a few others)

[veeevek]

anyone knows what dan belt kancho is??is he a red belt??isnt it necesary to be a red belt to be a kancho??OSU

Moderator note: Splitered this out from the thread on Matsui in the fighter profile forum. THe fighter profile forum is ONLY for profile information, not general discussion and other post not directly informative abouth the profiles and fight record

[sokaiya]

I belive he's 8-DAN unless he gave himself a promotion since Sosai's death.

[ichigeki31]

i dont think you can give yourself a promotion can u ?

[sokaiya]

I don't know? When it comes to himself, being Kancho and all of his own group, how would it happen?

[veeevek]

so is it possible to be a head of an organization without having the degree of a 10th Dan??

[sokaiya]

Well obviously it is since Kancho Matsui is only an 8DAN. But then again it is Matsui.. haha. I'm only joking.

[veeevek]

what about the other head people like Hanshi Arneil and all, is there any 10thDan in Kyokushin??

[sokaiya]

In Kyokushin? I dont think so but I'm sure outside guys like Jon Bluming, Tadashi Nakamura, Shigeru Oyama -- decidely promoted themselves to 10-DAN. And Bluming gave an honorary 10-DAN to Kenji Kurosaki.

[veeevek]

promote themselves??that means they dont have to undergo any test??they just make a new belt themselves??Is that what you mean??And i cant b'live that there are not 10th Dan in KYokushin...So the highest degree is Kancho with 8th Dan??

[sokaiya]

EDIT

Okay, some big time corrections.

Officially, Steve Arneil was awarded by Sosai before his death a 7th Dan Rank.
His 8th Dan Rank was award to him by the British Karate Community for his dedication to Karate and his 9th Dan Rank was awarded to him again, this time by his own IFK representatives, to honor his commitment and recognizing his work in promoting Kyokushin. He is currently a 9th Dan.

Officially, Shokei Matsui was only of 5th Dan Rank when Sosai died. He has then since in 12 years risen to the rank of 8th Dan. Probably on his own merit.

No information on Shigeru Oyama or Tadashi Nakamura or Jon Bluming who left almost ages ago in their own splinter factions. I know Shigeru Oyama and Jon Bluming took it upon themselves and awarded themselves with a 10th DAN. My mistake on Tadashi Nakamura who is a 9th DAN (which was disputed by Jon Bluming for awarding it to himself, Go Figure)

[effectz]

most of the time it is the members of the organization that promote them to those high dans. veeevek, after reaching godan(shihan), you have pretty much finished the kyokushin syllabus. its your achievements and things you do for the organization after reaching godan that bring you to the upper dan levels.

[veeevek]

oh i see..so after godan, what's really there??i mean will there be more of katas and all to study??or will it be like entirely teaching??or how ill it be??please tell me more in detailed, actually it's a wrong forum..but still please do tell me how it goes up then on...do you have to tour other countries to spread the organization, and things like that??oh and so those are the cases of hanshi arneil and kancho matsui...thanks a lot..OSU

[Martin H]

Matsui was 5th dan when Sosai died. He was later promoted to 8th (in one step) by his organization, to match Shihan Bobby Lowe and a few others who had received it from Sosai. The 8th dan is the highest grade given out in IKO in sosais lifetime or after.
Midori did the same from 4rth dan (although he never wears his 8th dan belt, only his 4rth dan one).
Matsushima the same.

Currently there seems to be a general "agreement" in all IKOs that noone will take a higher grade than the 8th dan which was the highest given out by Sosai.

Bluming got his 10th dan (a jump from the 6th dan he had when expelled from IKO) from a group of former kyokushin guys and kickboxers (led by Kurosaki). Although you could ask how a kyokushin grade could be given out by non-kyokushin men, Bluming didnt exactly give it to himself. He did give Kurosaki a honorary 10th dan shortly after.
Arneil got his 8th dan from a comitte of his students and his 9th dan from a brittish budo federation comprised of many styles.
Nakamura and Shigeru presumably got their 9th dan (the grade they currently hold in their respective styles) roughly the same way. Don Buck in AKKO (or is it AKKA -I can never remember which the independent american kyokushin organization is, and which is the australian IKO1 group) got his 10th dan postum (after his death) from his students.

Lets be honest, the final grades in all organizations are political. Sosai himself got his 8th dan from Gogen Yamagushi in Goju ryu, and his 9th and 10dan from a commitee of kyokushin shihans -his own students.
Dont let it bother you.

[Bloke]

Martin

The data on Hanshi Arneil is reversed - he actually got his 8th Dan from the British Martial Arts community as a whole and his 9th Dan from the IFK high Grades.

But as you say at the top end its a political thing and what matters most is the quality of instruction not the gold stripes on the belt.