Please help me and my students!

[sublimo]

Just want to ask how you deal with this kind off situations:

1) I just relise my kihon lessons are to boring. Altough I already train kyokushin for 15 years I feel that my kihon lessons are to boring cause I want to let them do there techniques perfect. But than I do the technique over and over again. At the end off the lesson I relise that we just train a very small part off what they should know. Some times I see higher grades green brown belts(yought) walking their katas and I wonder how can they be brown or green. I want that they walk it perfect. I mean their techniques. Some times persons just can´t make a correct fist, or they even can´t make a correct uchi uke or jodan uke. It seems like there body´s don t allow it to do that technique.

2)How to deal whit difficult students:
A female student from about 16 years must train from her parents but is not motivated and don t have budo spirit at all. She is a 5th kyu but no respect and no spirit at all.
-I told her to an exercise and she reply´s: why do we have to do that?
-I told her, her fake nails are dangerous to others and don´t belong in the dojo. She reply´s: they are not sharp and she wants to keep it.
-I want to teach them more about imbuki cause they must learn the sanchin. i want to tell them about imbuki that it isn t only a sound etc.
Than she makes jokes about it , you know how it is.

My vision to deal whit these kind off people is to punish them in front off the class. I don t mean fysically but to ban them out the dojo for a lesson. But since it was the first training I let her train further after my warnings.

It is just difficult to deal whit people who don t want to train. Same for children who are forced to train. I want to become a good teacher after my fighting time. Now I´m giving more and more kihon and kata lessons. It is more difficult to give lessons like this than kumite lessons. Cause it is boring stuff (my opinion). Me myself likes to walk kata but 100des off time the same movement is boring for me to. I don´t say it is ineffective! But you must improvise to make such a lesson interesting.

But how to you deal whit difficult students? And how to make your kihon lessons more interesting?

Thanks in advance for your help and reply.

[kakatootoshi]

Dear sublimo,
1. There is nothing wrong about your idea of having good Kihon. Some students do not realise the connection between Kihon and Kumite and you may use interesting ways for them to realise that. In the next lesson you may concentrate on "Seiken Tsuki" in Kihon. After that you may let them do "Sanbon Kumite" or "Ippon Kumite" that concentrate on "Seiken Tsuki", and then you can allow them to train their punches in fighting stance and on punch mitts and also teach them a few punch combos. See if they can feel the "secret connection. And when you teach the beginners Kihon, it is important to teach them the good form but you also need to know that you cannot require them to have a form as good as that of a shodan. If you are too "obsessed" with the correctness of form among the beginners then you will only slow down their learning process. They may not be in good form today but just make sure that they are always getting better.

The same principles can be used in teaching other types of Kihon but time is limited in each lesson so it is your responsibility as a Yudansha to use your expertise and wisdom to make good use of the time. There are different ways of teaching, some people like doing thousands of Kihon each time and some will change the amount of Kihon according to the progress of the students and also the current focus of teaching. But whatever you do there must always be Kihon!

2. Anyone who distrubs the class should be punished in front of the class, no question about that. If you think she has a personal issue then try to explain to her and her parents. If she is still not getting any better then ask her to pack and leave for good.

OSU!

[supergroup7]

Osu

I would like to offer my suggestions, perhaps they may be of help to you.

In the brief experience that I've had as an instructor, I found that being able to do Kihon well is something that develops in time for the student as they begin to learn how to use their muscles more efficiently, what their goal is with the movement, and to have enough strength in the smaller more detailed muscles to achieve their goal. At first, the students movements are very awkward and bulky, and rarely sent in the proper direction. I found that breaking the full movement down into segments helped some of them to analyze themselves, and achieve a better kihon. I would teach just the set position, then the beginning of the strike/block, and then add everything together slowly, and with total relaxation so that they can feel the gentle movement of the muscles. For other students, they needed to feel the impact of proper, and improper movement so I had them strike a target the way that they are used to doing their basic, and then I had them strike the target improperly ( on purpose) to feel the drastic difference.. and finally, I would teach them the "right" way to strike the target, and encourage the students to perform the kihon correctly. It was amazing how often I received an "AHA!" look in the eyes of the students, and then I'd see them correcting themselves during class to try to achieve what they once felt. All the time I would explain what it is that we are looking to achieve with this to support their learning in every direction: Some people learn by hearing, some by seeing and imitating, some by touching.

The better my students understood the various goals of Kihon, the more they could invest themselves into getting that little bit stronger.

Also, I would vary the speed of the delivery ( slow, medium, full speed), angle of stances ( straight on, 45 degree, turning 90 degree), the type of stances ( doing kihon in side stance, back stance, sanchin) I challenged my students to learn to do any kihon in any stance.. they found side stance to be a big hurdle.

I would have the students face each other, and then race to do 10 kihon ( with proper technique) as fast as possible in good stance. If anyone was caught shortening the strike/block.. they would receive the gift of 10 push ups. If anyone finished after their partner.. they would receive 10 push ups. Although this sounds harsh, I found that my students were all smiles at the compeditiveness of this exercise. I would make sure that the students switched partners after each set so as to have a chance against the next person.

As for discipline.. I would look at it in this way. If I wanted to go play bowling, and the rule is that I have to use bowling shoes for the game. I would respect the rules, or stop playing bowling. It's nice that she likes her fake nails. They can be quite expensive to purchase. However, she is endangering herself, and your other students by wearing these. I would tell her that as long as she is wearing long nails, she will not be allowed to do any partner work, nor kumite. However, she can perform Kihon, and kata to her hearts content.

When it comes to her comments in class about exercise, ibuki, or such things, it is best to help her understand that this is not acceptable behaviour in a dojo. It distracts from the purpose of the training, it shows a lack of proper mental focus, and disencourages the other students from their effort. There is only one Sensei, and if she wants to instruct the class, she will need to get a higher rank than the one that she has. I would pull her aside, and mention that any of these kinds of comments will be ignored, and that she will have to do 5 laps around the gym for each comment that she does ( or 20 push ups.. or whatever other exercise that she dislikes immensely) before she can rejoin the class.

Osu

[sonofkanga]

1.Patience is the most important aspect of the learning process.
2.If you are bored and don't see the point of the exercise,nether will your students.So first find a personal interest and then motivate your students.
3.Discipline.
PUBLISH THE RULES AND ENFORCE THEM.
You don't have to punish to enforce.Make sure that any infringement is stopped without hesitation.

[Azimuth]

When it are children , don't forget to think at their level .
Make them do things while they play. You can incorperate nice exercices in
games you play with them .
Try to be an example , someone they look up to and then they will start to copy all your moves .
Good luck and tell us about any progress .

[koji112091]

My openions not that experianced I'd just like to say what I think about this situation.
If they continue to breack my rules they are out. No question. Kyokushin is to good to ruin on people like this. I will of corse give warnings first but only one. Kyokushin is not just a phisical aspect but it is everything. It effects every thing you do including your demeaner to other people.
I rather have one great student then 1000 well paying but poorly skilled students.
OSU!

[seienchin]

Sublimo _ - I'd love to be able to help. Can you give us a bit more information please?
How much experience do you have as sole instructor for classes?
What is the age group of your students, and how many in a class?
Are these exclusively your students, or are you teaching sessions in a dojo operated by somebody else?

These factors will influence what I would suggest.

[Spirit]

Sublimo,
Please give us more info about this class, is it your dojo or was this class something you picked-up that was already in play???
More details will give us a better picture to possible helping you, also what country are you in.
The more you provide us the better the picture we get, right now I don't think you have given us proper info to reply with a good response. It seems that their is so much missing???

Though I'm a little confused about the fact that as a shodan, you are seemingly unaware of how to handle unwilling students?

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by jap man

Sublimo,
Please give us more info about this class, is it your dojo or was this class something you picked-up that was already in play??? It is not my dojo, I mean I´m not the owner. But I´m raised at this dojo. Since I was 12 years I train untill now (27 years).
More details will give us a better picture to possible helping you, also what country are you in.
The more you provide us the better the picture we get, right now I don't think you have given us proper info to reply with a good response. It seems that their is so much missing???

Though I'm a little confused about the fact that as a shodan, you are seemingly unaware of how to handle unwilling students?
Indeen and I´m a bit ashamed but admitts it.

Originally Posted by seienchin

Sublimo _ - I'd love to be able to help. Can you give us a bit more information please?
How much experience do you have as sole instructor for classes? before maybe a 10-12 times (year based) but mostley I trained for kata or kumite competitions. But I will reduce it in a few years and want to become a good teacher.
What is the age group of your students, and how many in a class? depends wich day. In the text under you will find more info.
Are these exclusively your students, or are you teaching sessions in a dojo operated by somebody else? We have a sensei who wach us while we teaching. mostley there are about 35 persons training in 1 session. we have children, yought, adults.

These factors will influence what I would suggest.

Dear all, thanks for your help and advices. It is not my dojo. I´m just a new shodan who is new in giving kata and kihon lessons. I gave lessons already, but most off the time kumite lessons. In the past untill now I´m a fighter so most off the time I trainded. But as I´m a new shodan the dojo requires that you give kihon and kata lessons to help the "lower" grades. It is not that I can´t asked in the dojo but as there are diffrent country s on this forum I wanted to get an opinion from "others".

In my dojo we have about 140 members and 15 yudansha. The highest ranked is yondan given by Hanshi Arneil. The dojo exist this year 22 years.

Our classes are splited:

Monday: the fighters train interval outside. But the biggest part off the dojo is split in two groups: white, red, blue, yellow, belts 1,5 hour kata and kihon only. the collors are splitted while doing the kihon and kata. We have 15 yudasha´s.
Than the next class greenbelt until yudansha´s.

Wednesday: yought 12-16 years 1,5h Kumite
Adults 16+ 1,5h kumite

Friday: children 6-12 years 1 hour
yought 12- 16 years 1.5 hour
Adults 16+ 1.5 hour
Saturday we run in the morning (competition class)

The reason why I have it difficult whit giving kihon lessons is the fact that I didn´t gave much lessons as a cha-obi (brown belt). I just trained my syllabus and most off the time I went for tournaments. Just for my examination I gave a bit kihon lessons cause indeed a shodan must have experience in teaching kihon also.

I do have experience in kyokushin as I trained and fought in many different country´s even in Japan I fought a tournament and trained under a sihan for a short time off two weeks. Just to get the picture.

This is my 15th year. But I was just amazed that I didn t had an answer for the bad behavior off a student. Most off the time, cause I´m a competition fighter they have respect and want to learn. So I don t have many students who have a bad behavior.

I think I was a bit shocked. Cause I´m not use to it. Than I think, how can she received a 4th kyu????

I just admit that I´m not good in giving kihon lessons. Other yudasha´s in my dojo are much better and more expierence in giving kihon lessons. But I promised my Sihan from Okinawa that I want to strive to become a good teacher. What involve´s kihon, ido geiko, kata and kumite.
Thats why I´m open and am willing to learn from as many people possible to forfill my goal.

Thank you very much for your help and reply.

Best regards,

[seienchin]

Ok - now we have some context.
Sublimo - The situation with the teenage girl is a bit complicated, because I think it involves a number of issues. Firstly, like all teens, she is inclined to challenge authority figures. Now that you are a shodan, and trying to tell her what to do, you are an authority figure.
Secondly, at 16, she is a little bundle of girlie hormones. We cut boys a lot of slack in their teen years on account of their hormones, but we often forget that girls can have a similar degree of adjustment difficulty. Sublimo, it is quite possible that she has a dreadful crush on you and doesn't know how to deal with it.

With this girl, I would suggest a discussion with her, with her parents there, to talk about what is going on. Don't start by telling. Start by listening. Say what had happened (as non-judgementally as you can) and ask her why it is happening. Don't do this on your own with her, because if she does have a crush on you, you are making trouble for yourself. Have a chaperone!!!!!! If the parents seem like a bad idea, what about a female yudansha? Or a more senior female student? Maybe ask her what it is that she wants from training, and see if you can deliver it. She might surprise you, and if you show this little bit of interest in her development (in spite of her insubordination) she may just turn into a great student.

Now, regarding making the class interesting - firstly plan your lessons. An inexperienced instructor must have a lesson plan. You just can't wing it, or your class will lose momentum. If you take the time before class to design what you are going to teach, you can select methods that you personally find exciting and intersting, and this will spill over to your students.

Punctuate your classes with some amusing stories. (short ones, but relevant) This may be hard if you are not a natural "talker", but students love hearing stories about how you struggled with things, or embarrassed yourself, or overcame obstacles. Don't be afraid to seem human. Your black-belt makes you seem super-human enough.

Talk about WHY things in basics are important. WHY do we put the supporting hand where we do in morote uke, why do we tuck our foot before we kick, WHY do we have our arm at a certain angle in jodan uke. Illustrate with stories, demonstrate doing it wrong and doing it right.

Hand out praise for IMPROVEMENT and EFFORT, not necessarily for being good at something.

Above all, enjoy yourself. If there are some students that you have a good relationship with, ask them for feedback about your classes, and be prepared to accept this in a spirite of gratitude and humility. Consider JapMan's method of taping yourself on video.

Don't despair - we all struggle with this at one time or another. The very fact that you are asking makes me sure that you will become a great instructor.

[supergroup7]

Seienchin, would a teen girl with a crush act out in a rebellious way like that? or would she rather swoon, giggle at everything he does in her direction, and do everything that he asks of her to try to get his attention?

Usually, I've found that a good sign of a girl with a crush is how they situate themselves close to their intended target, and give him all of the attention that they can.. usually with a little bit of involuntary stroking back of their hair, and big adoring eyes. But then, maybe different things for different teen girls.

I agree with you that listening to the problems which may be inherent in this student is a good idea. It is a great addition to one's teaching to understand, and know their students well.

However, I have to also think about the Goals of a Sensei. What is expected from our role? We really do not have time in the brief hours that we are with our students to get down into the counselling, befriending, and coaching of a student, AND be successful in teaching the various important aspects of karate. I think that it is quite difficult enough to teach a room filled with students how to move forwards in front stance while sending a proper strike without having to try to handle disruptive, argumentative, and disrespectful attitude.

When I was teaching, I had to ask myself what my goal was as a Sensei. I did not see my classes as human obedience training. I saw my efforts to be to offer the students a chance to walk a different path than what they have experienced in everyday life. A path where each person is responsible for their own effort, knowledge, and behaviour. The Sensei guides, but it is the student that walks. Yes, karate can be, and should be, used to "train our hearts, and bodies", and to learn to express a respectful, and humble spirit, but I believe that ultimately it is the student's that chose to walk this path, or not. The teacher can only offer the alternative. If a student feels that doing push ups isn't for them, showing respect to a higher belt isn't for them, or cutting their fingernails is unacceptable for them, then there are plenty of other ways of getting exercise which wouldn't include this aspect where they would feel more comfortable. It is better for them, and for the dojo to realize what they personally desire, and if this Sensei/ dojo provides those things. Discipline helps put forth the boundaries showing them which behaviour is valued in this dojo, and which behaviour is unwarranted, and not supported. Discipline isn't the same as punishment. Discipline is a consequence of chosing a certain decision. If they do not wish to walk the path offered by the Sensei, there are other paths available. There is no shame to finding one's path.

Perhaps this student would blossom better in a different environment?

[supergroup7]

Please do not be ashamed of being a Shodan, and not knowing how to handle unruly students, Sublimo. Having the skills, experience, and knowledge to achieve the Shodan rank did not automatically give you everything that you will need to know to survive a class filled with students.

I congratulate you for having the humility to recognize your lack of experience in this area, and for asking for advice. This is the sign of a very wise person.

As a Mom of a large family who homeschooled the lot of them for 6 years, I had many moments where I had to think creatively to motivate, teach, and discipline my children. I found that the advice that Seienchin has offered you works well. Also, I have realized that applying discipline, and expectations/ boundaries has also made my job easier as a teacher. The students actually desire boundaries/ expectations. They know what the rules are, and this gives them stability. You can look through our suggestions, and contemplate how you want your class to run, and what you are capable of doing. Keep what suggestions may sound interesting, and please discard those things which seem to go outside of your desires.

It is true that basics can be seen as mundane, and repeditive. So are scales to a musician, so is washing dishes, and doing laundry to a housewife, but these building blocks are where the foundation is laid for a stronger ability to perform later on. In fact, in my opinion, it is in BASICS that we see ourselves the best. This is when we can work on our patience, our perserverence, our spirit, our speed, our understanding, our stance, etc. etc. to our utmost.

When I was teaching, I would dedicate a good portion of my class to working on improving something as small as the recoil of a kick. I would research various exercises that would help the students to focus on that recoil, and then chose the ones that I would use, and then help my students learn how to kick better. The students enjoyed these moments of extra focus because they started to feel how their balance became better, or their speed improved. Sometimes all that it takes is understanding where the power should go to help them feel like they have achieved something important to them that day. I totally agree with Seienchin that preparing your classes ahead of time will improve everything a hundred fold. I would have a good 3 months worth of classes set down following a path to help my students learn.

I would always tell them at the start of class the focus of this lesson, then during class I would point out the main places where they are doing what I am focusing upon, and at the end of class I would explain what it is that we just learned, and how to practice this aspect in their training at home. Each class built on the other, and yet we covered all of the basics so that no one would be left behind.

[supergroup7]

Osu, Azimuth, you brought up a level of teaching that I have overlooked.

"When it are children , don't forget to think at their level .
Make them do things while they play. You can incorperate nice exercices in
games you play with them ."

Yes, I believe that children's brains are not physically developed as adults. They think, and react differently than adults so must be taught with their developmental abilities in mind. Incorporating some fun moments to the class is important to helping them learn to apply themselves. However, gently guiding them into a more serious effort can be done as they learn to meet the expectations of training in karate.

[Spirit]

This may be one of those times where "some" of what seienchin is saying I will disagree (in part).

First I would have never taken the crush thing into mind, boy I missed that one (though we don't know it is fact) good call seienchin.
I think her call on that one is best to follow and I'll just end it at that.

As for game plan on a class, that is where I'll wave off on.
I ask you, how many times did you go through a kihon/kata or just a class while you trained, did you not take in how the class ran the rhythm, etc and remember it???

You said that the other yudansha teach a good kihon/ kata class so why don't you follow it and add or take out what fits you as you go.
I believe that a planned class is stale, you can't plan a class of the unknown. You don't know who will be at class or how many or what energy will be brought in by those present. This is my augment for not planning.
Though going through a class is or has become old hat to me, I still look to the energy of the class to drive the direction of what we will cover and how long we will cover it.


Making a class interesting is a matter of have control of the class and projecting confidence in what you do and know.
Focus on what you known and known how to explain it (correctly) if someone has an issue. Often a good class is a non stop class rolling into new things without a lot of talk and fan fair. If you need to set goals, and need to talk about it to the class (ego) then tell them that we are going to do this, then this to be ABLE to do this.
If we do not do this accurately then we start over again and do it till we do it right, then move on. This motivates the students to do the "boring stuff" (me I love kihons) at a much higher spirit.
Nothing motivates like push-ups, except the bamboo stick and push-ups combined.
With kids yes it is different, but not very. If you are not one they look up to then they will not look at All.

Teens it is a matter of structure and discipline, this is the age of rebellion and trying to take control. Who will it be you or them?

[supergroup7]

Osu Marc Sensei,

You and I make good discussion partners as we seem to always end up on the opposite sides of the coin. This gives people a chance to look at all aspects of a conversation.

Pre-planning a class, and following a teaching goal-
I believe that a planned class is stale, you can't plan a class of the unknown.
I agree it is always good to be flexible to adjust one's class to the level of the students present, or perhaps to include/exclude different aspects.

However, teaching helter skelter information with no direction to it does not help people to learn. For example, if I wanted to learn how to maintain my garden, it's nice to learn random facts, but what I'm actually looking for in a gardening class is a step by step revelation of knowledge so that by the end of a certain amount of time, I will feel confident in what I am doing. Teaching things with a set goal helps the student to learn things in a way where the information supports, and builds up on each level. Pre planned classes are less than stale because the student is always working on what they have already been introduced to, and exploring farther into the next level. They can see the progress, understand it, and even learn how to explore information on their own.

Planning helps create a seed to start the class, then as the class progresses, the teacher can change direction depending on the results. Perhaps the students have already ingrained the concept being shown, then adaptation to a higher level is possible. Perhaps the students are struggling with just the basic movements, then focusing on simpler things is possible. Either way, walking in with a plan allows the teacher to have a goal to work towards. I.E.: I would like to improve the speed, and endurance of my students. Therefore we will be implementing such and such exercises for the next 3 months.

SG7quote:
I think that it is quite difficult enough to teach a room filled with students how to move forwards in front stance while sending a proper strike without having to try to handle disruptive, argumentative, and disrespectful attitude

I can't tell you how disturbing that statement is!!!

Perhaps it is disturbing to you because you see your role as a paid instructor of Karate differently than I have seen mine. I have understood that my students are coming into my dojo to learn karate skills. They are interested in gaining in knowledge of how to defend themselves, how to do what is needed to gain in rank, or how to get a black belt. Not one of them have requested that I become their Mentor. They are paying me to teach them karate, not to form them, give personal advice to them, nor be their friend. Sure.. a bond did develop between my students and I. A bond of trust, and of mutual effort to improve ourselves, but the fact that I have attained a higher rank than them does not automatically give me more wisdom than they have when it comes to life skills. I can share with them only what I have acquired through experience as a Martial artist. Being a mentor can only happen through my example, and behaviour, not through instruction. It also has to be that the student accepts me as a mentor. That my students found something within me that they chose to imitate is a compliment to how hard I have worked towards improving my own character. How can I, a total stranger, walk up to someone and impose my personal opinions, expectations, and philosophy in only 3-6 hours per week because they are paying me $50 to teach them karate? I can teach them about strikes, and when one should attack, and how to take advantage of a hesitation in their opponent. I can encourage my students when they feel that they cannot achieve the technique, but I cannot impose the spirituality that I have developed unto others. It is their choice as to how they walk their path. I cannot be their friend. I have to be their Sensei. Sometimes being a Sensei means doing things that a friend would never do to challenge the student to get beyond their self imposed limitations. Sensei are more than coaches, mentors, and friends. Sensei teach Karate.

Discipline and punishment is the same thing, its all a matter of samantics...

For me, as a mother, and teacher, I have come to the realization that discipline builds, and punishment destroys. Discipline helps a person to understand what needs to be changed, and motivates that person to put in effort to change it. Punishment causes shame, and makes the person cringe, feel guilt, sorrow, and fear. Discipline instructs with respect. It is a consequence of a bad choice. Punishment teaches the person to avoid attempting anything because the chance is that pain waits around the corner for mistakes. Discipline causes a feeling of self worth, and pride in the person who is willing to make up for their mistake, and the confidence that they will be able to avoid such errors in the future.

If you need to set goals, and need to talk about it to the class (ego)

I'm not sure if you are referring to the proven teaching method that I had described of "Telling the students what will be the goal of the lesson, reinforcing the goal as the student is doing the activity, repeating, and enforcing the goal at the end of the session." This is a positive manner of teaching used in the various school systems, and business seminars to teach any kind of information to groups. Repetition of goals, bringing the students back to focusing on that information more than once increases the ability to remember the information by over 90 percent. Teaching skills are no different when teaching maths, french, how to tie one's shoes, karate, or chess. Repeating information is not based on one's ego, nor is mentioning the major goal of this session. It helps the student to learn when they focus their energy in the same direction as the teacher. For instance, asking a student to stand on one leg in one spot while kicking can be useful in many directions. Asking the student to stand on one leg ( and make sure that they bend the knee of their support foot at all times ) helps the student become more aware of the fact that they are straightening that leg, and unbalancing themselves. Repeating the information to check their support leg and see if their knee is bent helps that student learn to correct themselves. Their mind focuses on that bent knee.. sure.. they might find that their kicks start to go wild a little, their arms might start flailing around.. but that's o.k. because the goal of this class is to keep that support knee bent throughout the exercise. Repeat that the arms, and the perfection of the kicks aren't the focus of this class, and return the student's to their goal to keep that knee bent, to feel how to do this successfully is the key to attaining a strong bent support knee in other places. The challenge starts to become "How to keep one's knee bent, and now perform the kick properly again?" I found that most of my students were naturally able to acheive that goal by the end of the class... but FIRST they had to become aware of what they were doing, and what they weren't doing. Repetition guided their minds to understanding.