Mawashi gueri in karate

Brazilian Berseker · 09-07-2007, 01:45 PM

Ossu!!
Is mawashi gueri a tecnique that came originaly from karate or it was "imported" from other arts. One time, I read that in the "old days" mawashi gueri just didn't exist in karate (especially jodan mawashi). Is that true? Did it really come from muay thai or TKD or kung fu?

Ossu, tks!!!!

**supergroup7** · 09-07-2007, 02:14 PM

Osu

Mawashi Geri, or Roundhouse kick, was developed by Sensei Gigo Yoshitaka Funakoshi (The son of the founder of Shotokan karate Sensei Gichin Funakoshi) and his group of researchers near the year 1932 before he died of tuberculosis. They also introduced the following into the Shotokan karate style: yoko geri kekomi, ushiro geri, ura mawashi geri, fudo-dachi, and more. Details taken from this site

In the old days many things that we see today did not exist in Japanese based karate i.e.: Shotokan, Shotokai, Kyokushin. For example, stances were much higher, and high kicks were rare. In time, karate developed, evolved, and expanded to include new information that was discovered about body mechanics, and physics, and also to meet the demands of training in that particular style.

Satori · 09-07-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supergroup7

They also introduced the following into the Shotokan karate style: yoko geri kekomi, ushiro geri, ura mawashi geri, fudo-dachi, and more.

I'd like to point out that traditional TKD does all its kicks kekomi. Funakoshi is the founder of karate, but he got most (or all) of his ideas from existing systems.

sonofkanga · 09-07-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satori

I'd like to point out that traditional TKD does all its kicks kekomi. Funakoshi is the founder of karate, but he got most (or all) of his ideas from existing systems.

Funakoshi, did not found Karate,he popularized it in Japan.He called his Karate-modern Karate.Which makes me laugh when I see some major Shotokan schools call themselves-Traditional Karate.The name Shotokan means Shoto s hall,Funakoshi used the pen name shuto,hence the name of his style.

orisha66 · 09-07-2007, 06:00 PM

Actually Shoto means Pine Wave, House of the Pine Wave or house of Funakoshi. Funakoshi considered it as modern because there are no traditional weapons from old Okinawa taught in Funakoshi School. No disrespect but now Kyokushin is modern karate, it has to be Sosai and his exponents to get this label.

**Shokei Marcsui** · 09-07-2007, 06:15 PM

I read in one a book (can't recall which one) that gedan mawashi geri was not very popular until the 70's when kyokushin karateka came back from fights with muay thai people in thailand. Has anyone else heard this?

**supergroup7** · 09-07-2007, 07:07 PM

I did notice that the Mawashi Geri is not apparent in any of the traditional kata that I've seen. It's not in the Pinan(s) at all. We see other kicks, with the front kick, and crescent kick being most common, but no Mawashi Geri.

Osu, I agree Satori, that Sensei Funakoshi was leaning upon his previous training in Okinawa to teach the Japanese. He does admit that after awhile the Karate of his "shotokan" students did not resemble the karate of his origin.

I agree Orisha66, that at least in my eyes, Kyokushin is now the Modern karate because it takes the knowledge of the previous styles, and incorporates it.

I could see that happening Shokei Marcsui. I could believe that the mawashi geri became popular when the Kyokushin karateka started using it with devestating effect on their opponents.

**smoothsake** · 09-07-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

I read in one a book (can't recall which one) that gedan mawashi geri was not very popular until the 70's when kyokushin karateka came back from fights with muay thai people in thailand. Has anyone else heard this?

I believe this to be true. The gedan has its roots in MT but I remember my senpai pulling me aside one night and telling me that our low kick was stronger.

**Shokei Marcsui** · 09-07-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

The gedan has its roots in MT but I remember my senpai pulling me aside one night and telling me that our low kick was stronger.

I can agree with that

MT has us on Hiza Geri though

kyofighter · 09-07-2007, 09:31 PM

I don't think they have us on the actual hiza geri , it's more the way they set it up , from the clinch - that is truly where they have us , in the clinch- I sparred with good muay thai fighters , you need to wory in the clinch and when you throw round kicks they tend to grab your leg and swip you off...

About the round kick in karate, hm ...don't know , but the low kick seems to be from MT.

**Shokei Marcsui** · 09-07-2007, 09:50 PM

This is probably an "ask your sensei" question, but Is it legal to use hiza geri to the leg during tournament fighting?

kakatootoshi · 09-07-2007, 10:06 PM

Dear Shokei Marcsui,
It is totally legal, many tournament fighters use it.

OSU!

Kurisu · 09-07-2007, 10:07 PM

Yes, hiza to the leg is legal provided that you don't grab or hit the family jewels. Not sure how effective it would be though.

**Shokei Marcsui** · 09-07-2007, 10:30 PM

I had in mind a *don't know if this is the right terminology* Hiza Mawashi Geri to the thighs from in close. I'll try it out.

Thanks for answering my question though.

sonofkanga · 09-08-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurisu

Yes, hiza to the leg is legal provided that you don't grab or hit the family jewels. Not sure how effective it would be though.

As effective as any other technique.Depends on execution,timing ,and other factors.Personally I use it with great results to inner thigh,especially when in close range fighting.

Lonewolf · 09-11-2007, 02:39 AM

OSU! Gedan Mawashi-Geri(Low Kick) was introduced into Kyokushin after Mr. Terutomo Yamazaki, the first All-Japan Champion and the "Dragon" of Kyokushin, started using it in his Kumite sessions, with surprising results. Mr. Yamazaki also trained in Muay-Thai under a Thai Trainer named Mr. Tom, and he learned from this trainer the proper way to use Low Kicks. At that time Yamazaki was actively competing in Japanese Kickboxing, and his training consisted of both styles. The kyokushin students quickly recognized the usefulness and benefit of this devastating technique and it was adopted into the style. The Kyokushin method of using Low Kick is still somewhat different from the original Muay-Thai version. The trajectory and body mechanics are different and the goal is to completely stop the opponent. In Muay-Thai, Gedan Geri is used more as a wearing down type technique, or a set-up to other knockout combination techniques. Rarely do you see a Thai Fighter attack the same way a fighter in Kyokushin does when using this technique. The goals are very different and the technique is modified in Kyokushin from the Muay-Thai version. However how you look at it, Gedan Geri(Low Kick) did not earn the nickname "The Great Equalizer" for nothing. It is an extremely effective and useful technique. OSU!

Spirit · 09-11-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

This is probably an "ask your sensei" question,

What???, is this finally starting to catch on???

PS I believe that Shoto as the meaning Pine Village is the Kun pronunciation and the On reading is pine forest which is Shoson, is the name of matsumura or that part of etc.
Shotokan is said to be the way Funakoshi honored the man who invented linear Karate, Matsumura the true farther of karate.

You can read more about this from the book shotokan's secrets page 40-41 and 106 gives you the kun, on, and honne of the name Shoto and the kanji too...

I can't find or remember where I read this (been looking for some time now) But anyway I did remember reading a quote from Sosai about Funakoshi and it was not at all kind or with any respect...
I personally find Kyokushin's linage connection to Shoto Kan limited if at all. Lonewolf do you have a memory on this quote???

I'm with lonewolf on this one, about the connection to the kick and how it came about...

**Shokei Marcsui** · 09-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

What???, is this finally starting to catch on???

I always ask my Sensei. The forum is supplemental and to get an idea of international trends

Bloke · 09-12-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

This is probably an "ask your sensei" question, but Is it legal to use hiza geri to the leg during tournament fighting?

Totally Legal - Matsui used it a lot in the 4th WT especially against Nick DaCosta

orisha66 · 09-14-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyofighter

I don't think they have us on the actual hiza geri , it's more the way they set it up , from the clinch - that is truly where they have us , in the clinch- I sparred with good muay thai fighters , you need to wory in the clinch and when you throw round kicks they tend to grab your leg and swip you off...

About the round kick in karate, hm ...don't know , but the low kick seems to be from MT.

Muai Thai has many throws in the clench. throws against hiza mawashi geri above the hips. Good techniques

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