question about dojo i visited

[ERIK]

hi i am new to kyokushin karate i haven't started training in it yet just been reading a lot and searching for a school. my question is this i visted a dojo i found in hickory hills illinois and the hanschi had 2 students who had just transferred from taekwondo to kyokushin. they were already blackbelts in taekwondo but not kyokushin. my question is this can a kyokushin school do this shouldnt the students start over? isnt this unfair to all the newbies who have to move up through ranks like everyone else. also i read on the wikipedia info on kyokushin that if a person who learns this art tries to go and enter fighting tournaments that he can no longer stay with the discipline i think i read something similar on a k1 fighter named andy hug. anyway the hanschi of this school was bragging on his fighters who he says fight in k1.
i read that mas oyama forbad any type of fighting events. so in closing if any of you all know of this school and can give me any insight or can tell me from your honest opinions what you think of this school from what iv'e told you all i'd appreciate it the school is southwest academy of karate 7834 hickory hills illinois. also if any of you all know of anymore kyokushin schools around the chicagoland area or southwest suburbs pease let me know thanx.

[seienchin]

Osu Erik. Welcome to the forums! Don't forget to go over to the introductions section, and start a thread telling us about yourself! Then we can welcome you properly.

You might find this thread helpful:
http://www.kyokushin4life.com/forums...oose-dojo.html

Regarding your observation of cross-style grading recognition - there are may practices accepted, but the most common one (in my experience) is to allow a yudansha from another style to train with their black-belt until they make a committment to kyokusin. Then they have to re-grade. I have seen a Zen Do Kai Nidan don a brown belt, in recognition that he was "in training" for a kyokushing shodan. He trained with us for 2 yeares before doing his shodan, and he earned it! I have seen shodans from some styles go to whitebelt, until they complete a grading at whatever level their instuctor and branch chief believe is appropriate.

Generally, nobody just puts on a Kyokushin black-belt, no matter what style they have trained in. They have to grade in Kyokushin to earn it.

I can't answer specific questions about the dojo you visited.

Regarding tournament participation: Kyokushin has many variations now, and all run tournaments. Some of the styles allow cross-participation,some don't. Perhaps someone who knows more about the current tournament scene than I do can help you here.

Just a gentle reminder to those replying, about the importance of being respectful to other styles and instructors.

[hungheykwun]

osu,

i'm a tkd 3 dan, i started frm white belt in kyokushin. Took me 3 years to get my shodan

[hasbeen]

seienchin says it all,as i understand it.

[Martin H]

as for the belt question.
Read Seienshins reply.

As for the guy who fights in k-1
Kyokushin has a general rule not to fight in proffesional events. Andy Hug had to leave kyokushin when he went pro.
However, that was long ago, and there are ways to get around that today. Some minor organizations has abandoned it entirely, while the major organizations makes exceptions for great fighters that they feel will not dishonor the kyokushin name by sucking.
However, while there are a few kyokushin fighters (as in "still kyokushin", not "formerly kyokushin") in k-1, they are few enough that we know them all. They are from japan, brazil, russia,and one each from hungary (daniel Torok) and australia (peter Sampson). That is about it.
I have never heard of any american kyokushin fighter in k-1 whatsoever, so if he claims a k-1 fighter as a student that sounds very strange (especially since there are not that many american k-1 fighters that is NOT kyokushin either) Try to get the name of the fighter and which k-1 he has been in, and we can check it out better.

[Spirit]

Generally in America, an instructor will (usually but not always) honor the rank of a yudansha (black belt) even if coming into Kyokushin from other Japanese or Okinawan Karate styles.

Often many Kyokushin instructors have a better than thou attitude and require people to start from jukyu (white belt).

Once a person makes Dan they are Dan no matter what style they are from and/or going into. If we as Kyokushinist are to follow by example then we need to except people for their present grade when they join our dojo's. Example to follow was Sosai's, well before his greatness was recognized, he was from Chinese Kempo then into Judo and then into Shotokan and from Shotokan into Goju, rank reconized.
PS he was not known as anything other than just another student at that time!!!

Also many of the top pasted and present non Japanese Kyokushin yudansha where from other styles and Sosai gave them rank in Kyokushin without asking them to start at any other rank other than the one they had in their present system.
I may see this differently than other, since many of my instructors and seminars instructors where such men/women...
And it is OK if one does start from white belt if they join Kyokushin even if they are shodan in another style or if they start at shodan, nidan whatever if they start in Kyokushin.

So Erik to answer your question about fairness in my eyes "yes" it is fair, since they have already trained and (possible) earned their present rank
(though we can say for sure, but that goes for everyone hear or the forum).

And hear are a few example why...
They already know the stances, kicks and blocks it is just a matter of correcting them to Kyokushin ways (a small adjustment for a trained karateka) many of the katas are very similar (TKD is just Shotokan with adjustments) again a small adjustment for a trained karateka and their is only 4 different katas that are not in TKD that are in Kyokushin before Shodan. This number could be higher or lower depending on the organization.
Lastly the dojo is OWNED by the instructor as his business and his dojo he/she makes the decisions that best fits him/her.

What usually what happens if a yudansha from another style joins another style's dojo, they are allowed to wear their present rank and are required to test at each grade level and to learn the kata', theriories, ideloogies, etc of said system.
Often you may not see the testing of the kyu requirments for that person, the instructor often does it on the QT.
So since you do not have any learned knowledge in any karate at all (assumed that you don't or you would have mentioned it, one would think) They have much more than you in many ways when it comes to karate knowledge, if one looks at it in this manner.
So it really is Ok and you should really be concerend about knowledge you need to learn.
Oh Erik it is spelled Hanshi

[hasbeen]

spirit,i do agree with the sentiments of what you are saying,however i have seen shodans from non-contact styles embarassed by yellow belts in "light free fighting" because they are not used to the contact of kyokushin?

[Spirit]

Their are many views as to what is the correct Karate and Karate training....

Some styles never spar at all or very little, contact or no contact is all up to the person.
In japan the JKA controls all Karate, but systems like Kyokushin do not fall under their control since they do not see Kyokushin and styles like it as Karate...
Views are different for all, even for the Karate word their are differences that is why so many styles and why so many top/mid level students leave their instructors to start their own style... views/believes, ideologies, etc...
One needs to be open, though this can be sometimes difficult and hard to do for hard noses like us...

I see PRO sports, i.e. football, baseball, hockey, basketball to be boring and a waist of time. Though most view them as great entertainment or ownership of the team or individual player even though we don't own them and only increase their million dollar salaries by watching them and buying their t-shirts and hats etc...

Me I can't see why one would watch or even pay (big $$$) to see a person work and then add to their inflated salaries to boot???
But that is me, so the same goes in Martial Arts, we all see differences and we all tend to "own" our style... It is a human trait to have such thoughts and actions. One just need to look at all things at a larger angle to see that all things are connected and the same.

[Spirit]

All I could really find out about your Sensei was that he did get his Nidan from the IKO on May 15, 71

[hasbeen]

fair point spirit, osu!

[vietchau]

I am a shodan in shotokan and did train under kyokushin sensei. Recently I joined a BKK club in london and I was told I can keep my belt. However, I want to wear a white belt, I want to earn another black belt from Hanshi Steve Arneil. The only real problem with this is I dont keep my colored belts, so I have to borrow from my fellow shotokan students. For me a belt has never been anything more than a belt really. Shihan and Hanshi at the kyokushin clubs know I am not a beginner so they ask/let me to do advanced techniques/katas with other higher belts, and that's all I care.

I am only afraid of wearing a belt that is higher than my ability not the other way around.

Osu,

[Shokei Marcsui]

Not on the same level, but when i transitioned from a different kyokushin organization I was a 8th kyu. I wore a white belt for 1.5 months and had to show my knowledge. After testing with the other students, I was able to move up to 7th kyu.

As seinchin said:

Generally, nobody just puts on a Kyokushin black-belt, no matter what style they have trained in. They have to grade in Kyokushin to earn it.

Each dojo/organization has there own rules so consult your sensei/shihan etc etc.

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

fair point spirit, osu!

thanks,
so often the big picture is over looked

[sublimo]

1) What? So the taekwando guys wants to keep there blackbelt and can´t walk the first takeo kata?
It is diffrent from a shotokan or other classic karate style. If I will train judo I will begin with a white belt. Logic right?


2) K1 fighter?...

3) I think Erik don t follow the topic anymore.