Uk's Youngest 3rd Dan

**tmd** · 03-07-2008, 03:50 PM

Kent TV - Karate Kid

Just found this interesting...Discuss...

Quote:

Sixteen-year-old Mathew Velvick from Ashford has become the first person in the UK aged under 18 to be awarded a 3rd Dan black belt in karate.

**ksan** · 03-07-2008, 05:59 PM

is it in kyokushin, coz the belt he is wearing is an isami belt, though it doesnt carry the standard isami-kyokushin patch. Also the embroidery on the dogi is not 100% clear.

Osu

Lucy · 03-07-2008, 06:09 PM

No he's not kyokushin. You can make that out by watching the kata's the group performs. I spotted pinan ni and yantsu.
There is a link to NAKMAS at the bottom of the article.

Lucy · 03-07-2008, 06:11 PM

He looks like he knows his stuff and is dedicated and passionate. Well his organisation obviously felt he was worthy so i won't make judgement. Never be allowed in Kyokushin though

kakatootoshi · 03-07-2008, 06:17 PM

I see his kanji and the words on his belt clearly and he is not Kyokushin. Not sure about splinter groups.

OSU!

**tmd** · 03-07-2008, 06:33 PM

The style of Karate is known as Tsuyoi-Ryu, meaning "Powerful School", and derives from Kyokushin Karate with an element of Shotokan included. The style changed format, completely in 1975, when Shihan Gerry Bryan 8th Dan decided to restructure, and has become a popular Japanese style, nationally, within Great Britain.

Uploaded form the web site... The instructor is a 6th Dan called Joe Ellis, I could be way off but I think he did Kyokushin back in the day - the link is a little clip of him seeing off a Shotokan 5th Dan...

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I AGREE

Bloke · 03-07-2008, 09:14 PM

He did do Kyokushin at one point - Nice vid.

**jcbel** · 03-08-2008, 12:50 AM

Definitely not Kyokushin from the movements and stances... is it just me or did anyone else think there was excessive hand movement during the kicking?

sublimo · 03-10-2008, 10:56 AM

No ikite= no kyokushin.
But it is ok and lookes like a good level.

Martin H · 03-10-2008, 12:01 PM

I dont like young black belts. Especially not young high-grade black belts.
IMO, one of the requirement for shodan (aside from the kumite, and ability to fight) is a degree of mental maturity.
A young teen (Im trying to be polite and not say "child"), simply do not have the right maturity, no matter the perfection of kihon & kata.

seienchin · 03-10-2008, 12:16 PM

He has some snappy techniques, but honestly, I 'm not impressed. This is not a reflection on the style per se, other than he is very young, and simply cannot have been put through the same grading and training requirements that an adult would have been, or it would constitute child abuse.BRING BACK THE WHITE STRIPE!!!! - All grades, in those under 16, white stripe through the middle of the belt.

Juniors are juniors for a reason. We have no problem telling them that they are not mature enought to marry, drive, drink, or vote. We need to tell them unequivocally that they are not mature enough to be hit hard either!

They are also generally not mature enough, physically or emotionally, to be graded with the same degree of ferocity as an adult. That is not bad. It is good, but it needs to be recognised.

I have seen one exception this - I watched the shodan grading of an exceptionally talented kyokushin fighter, who went on to represent Australia. I think he was 16. I wept at what he was put through, and how well he fought. It was no different to any other kyokushin shodan at the time, but even with his exceptional degree of talent, it was very, very hard to watch.

So - thinking "backwards" - for that young man to have done sandan at 16, he would have had to do that tough shodan grading at 12. um...I don't think so.

niceguy · 03-10-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seienchin

He has some snappy techniques, but honestly, I 'm not impressed. This is not a reflection on the style per se, other than he is very young, and simply cannot have been put through the same grading and training requirements that an adult would have been, or it would constitute child abuse.BRING BACK THE WHITE STRIPE!!!! - All grades, in those under 16, white stripe through the middle of the belt.

Juniors are juniors for a reason. We have no problem telling them that they are not mature enought to marry, drive, drink, or vote. We need to tell them unequivocally that they are not mature enough to be hit hard either!

They are also generally not mature enough, physically or emotionally, to be graded with the same degree of ferocity as an adult. That is not bad. It is good, but it needs to be recognised.

I have seen one exception this - I watched the shodan grading of an exceptionally talented kyokushin fighter, who went on to represent Australia. I think he was 16. I wept at what he was put through, and how well he fought. It was no different to any other kyokushin shodan at the time, but even with his exceptional degree of talent, it was very, very hard to watch.

So - thinking "backwards" - for that young man to have done sandan at 16, he would have had to do that tough shodan grading at 12. um...I don't think so.

imagine his 20-man kumite... fights against 9- 14 years olds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H

I dont like young black belts. Especially not young high-grade black belts.
IMO, one of the requirement for shodan (aside from the kumite, and ability to fight) is a degree of mental maturity.
A young teen (Im trying to be polite and not say "child"), simply do not have the right maturity, no matter the perfection of kihon & kata.

I SO agree with you, like seienchin said, bring back white stripes and re-test as an adult

Dent · 03-10-2008, 05:56 PM

Osu!

I think it comes down to a difference in perception regarding the meaning of a Dan grade. If we better explain our position to parents and youth members, I believe they will value Dan grades appropriately, no matter what some other style, or system, may do.

Osu!

goldberg2310 · 03-10-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H

I dont like young black belts. Especially not young high-grade black belts.
IMO, one of the requirement for shodan (aside from the kumite, and ability to fight) is a degree of mental maturity.
A young teen (Im trying to be polite and not say "child"), simply do not have the right maturity, no matter the perfection of kihon & kata.

,

i agree. it´s sad to see this within kyokushin nowadays also in europe ( spain, switzerland, etc.). but only for shodan. and this kid should be 3rd dan, sensei? sorry guys, that´s totally stupid.

oh, oh. what techniques? very bad. this should be a kyokushin derived style? god bless! no. never. maybe his "coach" is an advertising manager? ;-)

osu.

Setsuna162 · 03-10-2008, 09:24 PM

I also find that his techniques are very bad. They seem to be the techniques of a Kyu grade student.

**tmd** · 03-10-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldberg2310

,

i agree. it´s sad to see this within Kyokushin nowadays also in europe ( spain, switzerland, etc.). but only for shodan. and this kid should be 3rd dan, sensei? sorry guys, that´s totally stupid.

oh, oh. what techniques? very bad. this should be a kyokushin derived style? god bless! no. never. maybe his "coach" is an advertising manager? ;-)

osu.

This is not Kyokushin, although it does call itself a derivative, with a bit of Shotokan thrown in - it's as described in my other thread with the video clip of his Shihan smacking out the Shotokan black belt

, the Shihan I believe, trained in the hard knocks schools of the early BKK days so I totally respect him as a martial artist, and his judgment as a Shihan of his own style; is this as the youngest BB in th UK a marketing ploy, we'll he's on our local TV isn't he?

I always agree with the line that (in Kyokushin) juniors should grade at the same rate as seniors and achieve whatever the time line allows for even if this is 3rd Dan but as you hit 18 you've gotta retake that same grade as an adult.

But I ask is this only an issue for Kyokushin? Not sure how many other styles have full contact kumite as part of the grading or have 'harder' adult grading companied with the juniors so maybe it's just our issue and we cannot judge others by our own standards, maybe this kid did the exact same grading as the adults, I think it mentions in the clip about some seniors not passing the same grading ?

Kinda links nicely with my thread about honoring grades from other styles don't you think??

vapor · 03-11-2008, 02:05 AM

Ok....so the govt. didn't allow juniors to grade above a shodan, until 18 months ago...

So, in 18 months, he has obtained the knowledge, skill and experience to be deemed a 3 dan....and he has dropped out of school at age 16....

Something just doesn't add up, and I would say that the organization has gained more out of this, in terms of PR, than he did as an individual...(just my speculation)

vapor

Dent · 03-11-2008, 02:05 AM

Osu!

I think a large part of the problem is that many people associate the grade the same way as they would any other achievement, in that they think the benchmarks are technical alone, as opposed to a combination of technical, practical and philosophical.

To use Kata as an example: Should someone pass grading if they only know the movements in order? Or should they know the applications too? How about the reasons for being in that position in the first place?

Philosophy takes time and experience to develop. Who knows, maybe one day I might even gain some wisdom, but I'm in no rush.

I hope his teacher has something more in store for his Karate journey. It would be sad to hear that he quit after a few years more training.

Osu!

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