Kata: Your opinion - Page 2

meguro · 08-01-2008, 05:42 PM

Osu!What I'm saying is Funakoshi deliberately left out the locks, throws, vital point targeting that enable kata to be a repository of deadly fighting technique. Japanese Karate kata, in effect, became the first Tae Bo.

As a former judoka, sanchin dachi appears about as close to an air-uchimata as you can get, of course without the arms grabbing imaginary sleeve and lapel.

Quote:

for example, some will say that a forward thrusting punch from a front stance is not only a punch, but a throw and an outside block is lock or twisting of the limbs. i say no.

Didn't Freud also say,"sometimes a pen is just a pen."

I think, in most cases, you are correct: a punch is just a punch. However, a long forward stance combined with a strike can be a takedown technique, especially if the forward leg hooks behind the opponent's leg.

niceguy · 08-01-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary222

kata (and kihon) are the basics of kyokushin just like the foundation of a house it can seem flat boring and we never really want to discuss it but get rid of it and see what happend. And not going to state all the benefits of katas some people did a really good job already (osu SHIDOKANATLANTA san)

to me saying katas are useless to MA is just like the high school kid saying " What do i learn Math for Im going to be a football player!...

MA is a whole you cannot disregard any part.
Mottos no 9 Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle. Straight lines stem from this principle.

Mythinks reps to mary

Dent · 08-01-2008, 09:39 PM

Osu!

I think that so many different opinions on the value of Kata as training aid, the question can be answered most simply by stating that the value is to the individual.

I know that each of us has our own interpretation, but as long as we find value, it has value.

Overall, I like the intrinsic nature of Kata training. It will likely never be perfect, but that's part of the training too.

Osu!

**DKKC** · 08-02-2008, 12:15 AM

I love kata - but not the kata yuo have to do for competition or grading - the pretty looking stuff there everything needs to be just so - where technique has been changed over time for the sake of aestetics.

I love the kata I can feel, strong, real, the one where you can see the applications in its movements. I love the bunkai and oyo and i love taking it apart and puting it back together again in different sequence - making it 3D rather than linear.

Lucy · 08-02-2008, 03:01 AM

I adore Kata! Ive just come back from Switzerland from the IFK 2nd Swiss Open Kata Champs. I throughly enjoyed it! Chuffed with my 22.7 for Geksai Sho. Really, i want to learn all the 3rd Dan kata now. Can't get enough of it right now!

shinobijesus · 08-02-2008, 04:22 AM

sanchin dachi as uchimata....?

???

meguro · 08-02-2008, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinobijesus

sanchin dachi as uchimata....?

???

Woops.

When I explained it as simply as I could and still my messsage wasn't being understood, it finally occurred to me that I was calling ouchi gari, uchi mata. Big difference. My mistake.

Let's start again. Sanchin dachi = ouchi gari.

A picture is worth a thousand words. I believe

[u]this[/]

is a stylized depiction of

[u]this[/]

Dent · 08-02-2008, 12:55 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKKC

I love kata - but not the kata yuo have to do for competition or grading - the pretty looking stuff there everything needs to be just so - where technique has been changed over time for the sake of aestetics.

I love the kata I can feel, strong, real, the one where you can see the applications in its movements. I love the bunkai and oyo and i love taking it apart and puting it back together again in different sequence - making it 3D rather than linear.

Very nice, DKKC! Well said, and with passion!

Osu!

Dent · 08-02-2008, 12:57 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy

I adore Kata! Ive just come back from Switzerland from the IFK 2nd Swiss Open Kata Champs. I throughly enjoyed it! Chuffed with my 22.7 for Geksai Sho. Really, i want to learn all the 3rd Dan kata now. Can't get enough of it right now!

You're a thorough competitor, Lucy! I'm not sure what that score means. Could you explain the system, and the judging criteria?

Osu!

Dent · 08-02-2008, 12:58 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meguro

Woops.

When I explained it as simply as I could and still my messsage wasn't being understood, it finally occurred to me that I was calling ouchi gari, uchi mata. Big difference. My mistake.

Let's start again. Sanchin dachi = ouchi gari.

Thanks for the clarification, Meguro! Good clips to use too.

Osu!

Lucy · 08-02-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

You're a thorough competitor, Lucy! I'm not sure what that score means. Could you explain the system, and the judging criteria?

Osu!

Good point that would be helpful.....

Ok scores range from 6.0 to 8.0. Average being 7.0 (start point). Five judges, on on each corner of the area, and a centre judge at the front, who gives the commands etc. Obviously you dock points for errors and add for good technique, presentation etc.

All five judges give their scores on cards. The highest and the lowest are knocked off and your score is the 3 in the middle added together. i.e 7.5, 7.4, 7.5 would be 22.4.

The lowest is added back on in the event of a draw, and if it is still a draw between competitors then the highest is added back on. If its still a draw then you would have to perform another kata.

I was very happy when i scored a 7.8!!!

nunu · 08-03-2008, 04:10 AM

kata is good practise

seienchin · 08-03-2008, 04:22 AM

nunu.

Please, pop over to the introductions forum, and allow us to welcome you properly. Start a thread there, and tell us a little bit about yourself.

Dent · 08-03-2008, 05:26 AM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy

Good point that would be helpful.....

Ok scores range from 6.0 to 8.0. Average being 7.0 (start point). Five judges, on on each corner of the area, and a centre judge at the front, who gives the commands etc. Obviously you dock points for errors and add for good technique, presentation etc.

All five judges give their scores on cards. The highest and the lowest are knocked off and your score is the 3 in the middle added together. i.e 7.5, 7.4, 7.5 would be 22.4.

The lowest is added back on in the event of a draw, and if it is still a draw between competitors then the highest is added back on. If its still a draw then you would have to perform another kata.

I was very happy when i scored a 7.8!!!

So, if I get this right, the lowest score a competitor could receive would be 18, and the highest 24? If so, then 22.7 is a very respectable number.

Do I need to know why such arbitrary score lines? Was it originally from 0-10, but accepted as 6 (so as not to hurt feelings), and 8 (so as not to let anyone become overly confident in their performance)?

Osu!

shinobijesus · 08-04-2008, 04:16 AM

ok... i can see the ouchi-gari thing. thank you for restoring my faith in my previous and current senseis though. uchi-mata is a whole different animal so i was wondering how i went so wrong in choosing senseis.

Kyokushin_Practioner · 08-06-2008, 01:08 PM

i LOVE Kata,i think it's great.Martial Arts wouldn't be Martial Arts without Kata IMO.

theres a purpose for kata and it shows in form,technique,power,balance,and spirit.

Dent · 08-06-2008, 04:22 PM

Osu!

Well, I'm still one of those that can't absorb much without a partner. Kata by itself just doesn't have the appeal of application during the learning phase.

Even after decades of practicing certain Kata, it's still those I learned with a partner that I remember best. (Makes me wonder how I could have applied this knowledge to my Math classes.

)

Add to the above that I am a slow learner, and that I'd rather practice the same thing repeatedly with different partners than speed on to new material. Sanchin is a fine example. With so much to cover, it would be great to dedicate at least a month to each Kata. We could still run through the others, but say spend at least 15-20 minutes a class on the movements and applications of the selected Kata of the month.

Osu!

**Brad** · 08-07-2008, 04:11 AM

osu.

I love Kata i love how it flows through me. The turns and movement i am a fan of it. And i am lucky i pick up Kata really fast. One time i learnt three Katas in one night. But i also have to thank my sensei for that. Osu!

Dent · 08-07-2008, 05:24 AM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

osu.

I love Kata i love how it flows through me. The turns and movement i am a fan of it. And i am lucky i pick up Kata really fast. One time i learnt three Katas in one night. But i also have to thank my sensei for that. Osu!

That's amazing, Brad!

It's practice, practice, practice for me. On the bright side, it means I have to keep at it all the time.

Osu!

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