Getting winded

[tmd]

Right, as I think about it when you get winded by a strike or fall you basically knock all the wind out of you where as normally you only get rid of about 30% of it and the reason it takes awhile to recover is that as all the 'air' has left your lungs your body needs to take a moment to balance the levels of carbon dioxide and oxygen in the lungs for effective operation.

I may be completely wrong and would like to know the right reason but more importantly is there any training you can do to speed up the recovery time?

[TRK]

I am not sure this would work for that particular situation, but I have done wind-training while swimming to help with breath control while breathing hard. Swimming laps, start easy and work up. Usually people breathe every 2 or 3 strokes. Extend it. Breathe every 4, 6, 8...strokes. You can work up to swimming an entire 25 without a breath. The water makes it easy not to cheat, but I suppose you could do something similar with another form of cardio workout that you like better.

[Steffen]

Swimming made me remember this one... snorkel-training:

YouTube - Wanderlei Silva Training

[tmd]

Originally Posted by TRK

I am not sure this would work for that particular situation, but I have done wind-training while swimming to help with breath control while breathing hard. Swimming laps, start easy and work up. Usually people breathe every 2 or 3 strokes. Extend it. Breathe every 4, 6, 8...strokes. You can work up to swimming an entire 25 without a breath. The water makes it easy not to cheat, but I suppose you could do something similar with another form of cardio workout that you like better.

Swim most Sundays so will give tis a try - does this actually stop you getting winded when hit?

[TRK]

Originally Posted by tmd

Swim most Sundays so will give tis a try - does this actually stop you getting winded when hit?

I don't know. It is the best I could come up with. If the problem is actually your body reacting to a lack of oxygen, it should. If the problem is a muscle spasm brought on by the shock of getting hit, probably not. Though the more your body gets used to needing air badly and not being able to get it, the more you should be able to deal with getting the wind knocked out of you.

I am really just guessing, so I'd love to hear your experience.

[tmd]

Originally Posted by TRK

I don't know. It is the best I could come up with. If the problem is actually your body reacting to a lack of oxygen, it should. If the problem is a muscle spasm brought on by the shock of getting hit, probably not. Though the more your body gets used to needing air badly and not being able to get it, the more you should be able to deal with getting the wind knocked out of you.

I am really just guessing, so I'd love to hear your experience.

I know - come to my dojo and I'll punch you in the solar plexus - you punch me and we'll see who recovers quickest

Seriously I intent to try this as an exercise over the next month or so - will report back if it does or doesn't help.

[TRK]

Will do...after I get my brown belt in Kyokushin (if I read the belt under your name right). Then we'll both have the same amount of experience taking punches.

[tmd]

Originally Posted by TRK

Will do...after I get my brown belt in Kyokushin (if I read the belt under your name right). Then we'll both have the same amount of experience taking punches.

The belt under the names are virtual belts to do with postings on the forum -coincidentally I am a 1st Kyu in Kyokushin too but you are welcome to our dojo any time your in Kent regardless of your grade or style or organization etc etc.

[TRK]

Thank you. If I am ever in Kent, I will certainly take you up on your offer.

[DKKC]

I have discovered a method that seems to work on me and on others I 'coached' during those panicky seconds.

The trick is not to try to breathe in. It happened that I got winded in a competition many years ago by my best friend and club mate with whom I was very competitive (we both were) and I really didn't want to show it. I tried breating in twice but my throat just closed and as she kept attacking I had no other choice but to stop trying to breathe in, hold my breath and attack just to push her back a bit and get myself some space. I pushed her out of the fighting area and, while we walked back I tried breathing in again but didn't work. So, don't know why, I decided to breathe out the little gas I had left in my lungs - that worked and I managed to breathe in some air as well before my throat closed again (I really did gasp for air). Afterwards I would wait, force the air out and take small breaths in. After about 3 or 4 I was back to normal. Since then I've done this quite a few times in tournaments . And I managed to help a few of my club mates as well when they got winded in training.

[chen3141]

From Wikipedia

Getting the wind knocked out of you or being winded is a phrase that mainly refers to a kind of diaphragm spasm that occurs when sudden force is applied to the abdomen which puts pressure on the solar plexus. It results in a temporary paralysis of the diaphragm that makes it difficult to breathe for a short period of time. It can also occur from a strong blow to the back.

When the abdomen is struck, a large difference in pressure occurs across the diaphragm. The diaphragm then stretches, which also stretches the diaphragm's nerves. The resulting mechanical force puts the diaphragm into a muscle spasm, comparable to having a charley horse in the leg. It takes a few seconds for the diaphragm to relax again before breathing can resume normally. Martial artists are often taught to breathe out heavily when struck in the stomach, to minimize this effect.

[tmd]

Thank you Chen it is most helpful to understand what is actually going on and it makes sense of the other posts as clearly if it's physical it can be made stronger with specific training.

DKKC that's exactly the advise my wife gave - just hold you're breath and keep attacking till it corrects itself,

[jcc]

Originally Posted by DKKC

I have discovered a method that seems to work on me and on others I 'coached' during those panicky seconds.

The trick is not to try to breathe in. It happened that I got winded in a competition many years ago by my best friend and club mate with whom I was very competitive (we both were) and I really didn't want to show it. I tried breating in twice but my throat just closed and as she kept attacking I had no other choice but to stop trying to breathe in, hold my breath and attack just to push her back a bit and get myself some space. I pushed her out of the fighting area and, while we walked back I tried breathing in again but didn't work. So, don't know why, I decided to breathe out the little gas I had left in my lungs - that worked and I managed to breathe in some air as well before my throat closed again (I really did gasp for air). Afterwards I would wait, force the air out and take small breaths in. After about 3 or 4 I was back to normal. Since then I've done this quite a few times in tournaments . And I managed to help a few of my club mates as well when they got winded in training.

Originally Posted by chen3141

From Wikipedia

Getting the wind knocked out of you or being winded is a phrase that mainly refers to a kind of diaphragm spasm that occurs when sudden force is applied to the abdomen which puts pressure on the solar plexus. It results in a temporary paralysis of the diaphragm that makes it difficult to breathe for a short period of time. It can also occur from a strong blow to the back.

When the abdomen is struck, a large difference in pressure occurs across the diaphragm. The diaphragm then stretches, which also stretches the diaphragm's nerves. The resulting mechanical force puts the diaphragm into a muscle spasm, comparable to having a charley horse in the leg. It takes a few seconds for the diaphragm to relax again before breathing can resume normally. Martial artists are often taught to breathe out heavily when struck in the stomach, to minimize this effect.

Osu!

We practice this in sanchin kata - the extra little exhalation at the end of each movement/ibuki. So now we all know...

[tmd]

That is also how we do Sanshin but ny diaphram clearly needs more training than that...

[jcc]

Osu! tmd,

Does that mean you´re looking for volunteers to come do this to you?? :

YouTube - Fight Quest - Doug gets pummeled

Osu!

[tmd]

Originally Posted by jcc

Osu! tmd,

Does that mean you´re looking for volunteers to come do this to you?? : YouTube - Fight Quest - Doug gets pummeled

Osu!

I do do this twice a week but with my 14 year old 3 x 30 seconds against the wall - when we start conditioning time everyone in the dojo gets a go - if you happen to be training that night you'll get your turn

[medguy]

during kumite or bag work, practice sharply exhaling each technique you throw. The breath should control the speed at which the technique is thrown, so that your air is expended upon extension of the punch or kick. the faster you exhale your air, the faster the punch or kick thrown. At the end of the exhalation you should feel a tightening in your stomach muscles. Try saying "Ish" each punch or kick on the bag or partner.

This, coupled with regular intense cardio and sprint work, will help you to not get so winded during sparring.

[tmd]

Thanks for the post Medguy - I've been training for a while now and always do exhale on each strike, last one usually gets a dojo filling kiai! I'm trying to do sprint work right now but I have a big issue with my ankle so can't do it as often as I'd like - I do bag work, static bike & sparing, waight training and of course dojo work inc. kihon and sparing for around 14 hours a week but am always on the look out for new ideas so if you have any specific exercises to help strengthen the area affected I'd love to hear them.

[Shamo]

Thank you all for the wonderfull advice!
I usually use the breath in by the nose, exhale by the mouth, works ok if I can keep my cool.