Keri versus Geri

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by smoothsake

the best language teacher is a person of the opposite sex.

We used to refer to these as long-haired dictionaries!

I'm sure the ladies never had this problem? Why is that? And how do we get from that, to back on topic?

Osu!

[Kris]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

the best language teacher is a person of the opposite sex.

Yes, true. BUT, be careful with this in Japanese. Many Gaijin learned Japanese from their girlfriends and learned to speak a very feminine Japanese. I also know a girl who learned Japanese by working in a hostess club. All the clients were men, so instead of saying "Watashi" (me, I) she now says (Ore), (about herself). Not so nice.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by Kris

Yes, true. BUT, be careful with this in Japanese. Many Gaijin learned Japanese from their girlfriends and learned to speak a very feminine Japanese. I also know a girl who learned Japanese by working in a hostess club. All the clients were men, so instead of saying "Watashi" (me, I) she now says (Ore), (about herself). Not so nice.

I've heard of this! It was explained to me that one guy I met had very funny Japanese. Not understanding any of it, it all seemed fine to me, but my Sempai said that all his language and manners were very feminine. Not ideal for a guy who was almost 6'3"!

Osu!

[vapor]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!



I've heard of this! It was explained to me that one guy I met had very funny Japanese. Not understanding any of it, it all seemed fine to me, but my Sempai said that all his language and manners were very feminine. Not ideal for a guy who was almost 6'3"!

Osu!

As I am not your sempai, I know that you are not talking about me!!!

vapor

[Dent]

Osu! Vapor,

Originally Posted by vapor

As I am not your sempai, I know that you are not talking about me!!!

vapor

Well, he wasn't my Sempai, my Sempai was explaining it to me...

But no, this was in Japan, so unless you entered the witness protection program, and had a lot of plastic surgery, not you at all!

Osu!

[vapor]

Dent...no witness protection for me!!

I have seen men in Japan that did learn all of their language skills from women...and there is no hiding it!!

vapor

[kakatootoshi]

Dear vapor,
Indeed women have superior verbal skills! Just look at the words of the US presidential candidates.

OSU!

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by vapor

Dent...no witness protection for me!!

I have seen men in Japan that did learn all of their language skills from women...and there is no hiding it!!

vapor

You mean like the guy who bows with his hands on the front of his thighs?

Osu!

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

Something has bothered me for a while...

keri = kick

geri = diarrhea

Please use the right word when you type/say words like jodan mawashi keri and hiza keri, etc.

OSU SMOOTHSAKE!!....do you mean diarrhoea?

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by shurenkan

In Japanese, words change in pronunciation depending on what precedes it. For example, the classifier "hon" is used to count specific objects. "hon" changes in pronunciation depending on the number that precedes it. Ippon, Nihon, Sambon...

It's kind of the same thing with Geri and Keri. Independently we refer to it as Keri. When it proceeds other words it becomes geri. That happens often with the "k" syllables of the Japanese language. For example, "keiko" is often pronounced "geiko."

Ultimately we have to remember that we are romanizing a language based on pictographs. The character remains the same, regardless of how it's pronounced or how we spell it using our alphabet.

So the "geri" that means diarrhea is a very different character (actually combination of characters.)

Osu,
Miguel Rios

Exactly! It I have been told correctly it may also sometimes be written (and pronounced) in the hard form "K" when it is used in the beginning. Whereas the softer "G" is used inside a sentence.
The G/K sound in japanese is not exactly the same as the G and K used in western languages.

Keri waza = Right
Geri waza = wrong.

Jodan Geri = Right
Jodan Keri = wrong.

Kedan = always wrong.

[jcbel]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

OSU SMOOTHSAKE!!....do you mean diarrhoea?

Osu hasbeen! I believe smoothsake is using the American spelling.

Darned English language and its subtleties...

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by jcbel

Osu hasbeen! I believe smoothsake is using the American spelling.

Darned English language and its subtleties...

osu jcbel! i thank you for pointing out my mistake, smoothsake now you know why i have the donkey avatar!....

[Shiroryuu]

Some of the consonants of the first syllable of the second word in a compound word will change their sound. Such as "K" turning into "G", "T" turning into "D", etc.

Also, about what Kris said about guys learning feminine Japanese from girls, some of my friends had a similar experience when we were in a Study in Kyoto program for a month during the summer. Some of the guys who didn't really speak much Japanese started learning from the girls, since the majority of the Japanese college students we spoke to were girls, so they ended up talking girl Japanese like "Atashi", ending a sentence with Wa, etc. Fortunately, I had a good grasp of the Japanese language beforehand so I usually speak to Japanese people using "Ore" and such, unless that person is my teacher or boss or whatever.

[Spirit]

mmm, did anyone think of this yet [didn't read all the posts] keri is okinawan and geri is japanese ???
just wondering...

[Dent]

Osu!

I think that trying to compare translations of Hogen and Nihongo in English is going to be very very tough. The two languages are so different as to be wholly distinct.

Osu!

[doogfood]

Just like shurenkan explained, keri is correct if you are using this word alone, but when there is a word preceding it (almost like a prefix), then it changes into geri. Examples are mae-geri, mawashi-geri, ushiro-geri, etc.

Similar changes occur with tuki, or punch. When a word is preceding it, it becomes duki (spelled this way in alphabets by Japanese people but pronoucned zuki. related to reason why many Japanese people get their L and R sounds mixed up). Examples are seiken-zuki, shita-zuki, etc.

[Nix]

Originally Posted by doogfood

Similar changes occur with tuki, or punch. When a word is preceding it, it becomes duki (spelled this way in alphabets by Japanese people but pronoucned zuki. related to reason why many Japanese people get their L and R sounds mixed up). Examples are seiken-zuki, shita-zuki, etc.

Did you misspell something? Tuki and duki are both new to me. Did you mean to say that 'tsuki' becomes 'zuki' when following another word?

[smoothsake]

Originally Posted by doogfood

Similar changes occur with tuki, or punch. When a word is preceding it, it becomes duki (spelled this way in alphabets by Japanese people but pronoucned zuki. related to reason why many Japanese people get their L and R sounds mixed up). Examples are seiken-zuki, shita-zuki, etc.

Tsuki is tsuki is tsuki. It doesn't change. It definitely is not romanized to duki or zuki. And Japanese have problems with Ls because Ls do not exist in the Japanese language... R is the closest sound and that is what is used to teach English from Day 1 so it is a hard habit to break.

[doogfood]

Sorry tuki meant to be tsuki. Just that when typed on a keyboard to write it in Japanese, tuki and tsuki would both come out the same way.

tuki, tsuki - 突き - both produce the same sound of word when typing. Same way "ka" and "ca" can both be "か" when typed.
zuki - ずき - the first letter is wrong for the word
duki - づき - correct character

Other karate related examples are:
- harai (sweep, verb is harau) - ashi-barai (leg sweep), deashi-barai (term used more in judo, meaning sweep of the leg that is out or coming out)
- tachi (stance, verb is tatsu) - zenkutsu-dachi, koukutsu-dachi, kiba-dachi
- keiko (training) - kihon-geiko (basic training)

Yes the L sound does exist in the らりるれろpart of the Japanese alphabet. Just that these are spelled as ra, ri, ru, re, ro when written in roma-ji, so Japanese people have the habit of pronouncing R's with L sounds. R sounds are the sound that does not exist, and Japanese people tend to get this confused.

I am Japanese myself and I have seen people learning Japanese struggle with these changes in words. A little off topic but the suffix used when counting numbers of stuff are similar to this. For example, when counting number of punches, 10 times would be "ju-ppon", and the "pon", which represents the number of times would change depending on the number you are saying. So from one to ten times, it is i-ppon, ni-hon, san-bon, yon-hon, go-hon, ro-ppon, nana-hon, ha-ppon, kyu-hon, ju-ppon. The originally, pronounced "hon" it transforms into many different ways depending on the number.