How old are the pinan ura katas?

[orisha66]

Osu!
does anyone know how long the pinan ura katas have been around and do alot of the kyokushin dojo teach them?
Are they the creation of Sosai?

[ryudo]

Oye socio que haces en Ohio, hablas espanol?
The Pinan katas I believe were introduce by chinese envoys to Okinawa During the reign of the Sho king but I am not sure I have to look it up, and right now the book shelf looks to far away.

[ryudo]

Oh sorry didn't see the whole thing "pinan ura"...Well, what the heck is that, sorry never heard of it, well maybe that's because I am not too familiar with kyokushin but I like the style any ways at least the full contact methology.
Also there's this book by Pat Mccarty call classical kata of Okinawan karate, I don't know if that could be of any help.
Osu!

[Martin H]

The Pinan 1-5 katas was created by Anko Itosu (1830-1915) between the years 1902-1906. Itosu was a school teacher (and the main instructor of Gichin Funakoshi who created shotokan) and introduced karate as formal physical education in schools on Okinawa.
He created the pinan serie as a simplification of older katas (it is mainly believed that he based them on kanku/kushanku and Bassai/Passai, but there are different oppinions about it) to teach to school kids. They where not introduced from china.

The Pinan ura katas are unique to kyokushin, and was presumably created by Sosai, or atleast by someone very close to him, during the early days of kyokushin.

[Martin H]

Forum rule is "english only".
If you want to write to each other in spanish, take it to PM.

Just a friendly reminder.

[smoothsake]

I must say that when I saw the ura kata for the first time it took me aback. Can someone explain to me the point of ura? I understand that it does take considerable balance and control to spin yourself on one foot but is there any additional functional value?

[Bloke]

I was once told that it was because we should be able to do the Katas backwards

I actually did see a demo by some French students at the British Open many years ago where they did a kata all the way through and then did it backwards - every move completely reversed - it was amazing and must have taken months of training to do.

As for Ura katas it is about balance and circular motion.

[orisha66]

thank you for your input. my thoughts were that they were to help train sabaki waza. but wasnt for sure.
Osu!

[ksan]

Originally Posted by Bloke

As for Ura katas it is about balance and circular motion.

I was taught this aswell, balance after/during spinning circular motion.

osu

[RASor]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

I must say that when I saw the ura kata for the first time it took me aback. Can someone explain to me the point of ura? I understand that it does take considerable balance and control to spin yourself on one foot but is there any additional functional value?

Osu,

Balance. Besides the Ura is also helpful in improving kicks that require turning like the turning side or long.

Also helps strengthen the knee, heel and ankle.

Osu.

[Hton]

as said before strength and balance are important from ura but its also a good training for movement and moreso it teaches a form of side stepping and moving around an opponent (sabaki)

[mportela]

Maybe this information is useful:

"PINAN ICHI, NI, SAN, YON, GO – URA
Developed by Sosai Masutatsu Oyama en 1980"

Source:kyokushincanada.com/KihonGeiko

Marcello

[SHIHAN MERCADO]

The ura katas have been around a long time. I started in Kyokushin the 1980's and it was around then. Years ago alot of dojos didn't teach them because only the higher ranking shihan's knew them and if you were in a dojo where the chief instructor didn't want you to know them then it was like a secret. What I found through my personal experience was some instructors didn't teach them because they used it as a motive to hold back some knowledge.

[Spirit]

We where doing taikyoku in ura back in the early 70's???

Does anyone know ten no kata ( great japan karate way heavenly kata) or ten no kata ura, it is a shotokan kata. We do this kata with a few variations to the shotokan one. Excellant kata I beleive it is one of the best katas ever. I realize that this is getting off the track a bit ... so to play devils advocate....

Ura in shotokan is performing with partner.
Also according to what I have read, URA means "rear" or "reverse side"
maybe not a answer to the "?" but helps to add knowledge

[orisha66]

I have never seen them until now.

[Spirit]

I'm sure their will be some disagreement on this but I'll add this ....
Pinan (heian) Nidan was said to be seperate from the other 4 heains. It was said to be introduced by Matsumura and the other 4 heians is said to be introduced by Itosu some time in the 1905 to the public (note he introduced 5 heains in 1905 but it may have been that he added the matsumura kata with his 4 to make the 5???)
Note Matsumura is the said to be the true farther of Karate which styles such as wado, goju, shinto, kenpo, shotokan, chito, isshin to name a few came from him or his students or students, students.
Kyokushin would be like 4-5 or 6-7 generations from him (systems, not years) depending on how you read the graph. Though histroy of Karate is not well keep or not at all an often must rey on verbal histroy (tails) that change with each person telling them.

[JensGae]

In my oppinion it is very hard to ascertain that this Kata was created at this time and by that instructor....

I think they have been created over centuries by different people.

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by Bloke

I was once told that it was because we should be able to do the Katas backwards

I actually did see a demo by some French students at the British Open many years ago where they did a kata all the way through and then did it backwards - every move completely reversed - it was amazing and must have taken months of training to do.

As for Ura katas it is about balance and circular motion.

Kata backwards are "sagare", and used to form regular part of training in my dojo. Ura kata were invented by Sosai in the 1970s, - see thread about purpose of ura.

[kakatootoshi]

Dear seienchin,
Just a minor point, I think it should be "sagari".

OSU!

[seienchin]

thankyou Kakatooshi-san. I like to learn!