A good analogy about the benefits of studying kata....

[blackshield]

i was only joking around.... (i have been called a piss-ant before )

[Spirit]

blackshield, I was neither calling you or myself directly a "piss ant", if you re-read it, you'll see that it was stated as...
talking about a "hypothetical" teacher who "hypothetically" taught me something I disagreed with, but my better judgment tells me to learn it because he/she just may know what they are talking about and I did not!

[blackshield]

Hahaha, don't worry Spirit - I understood your post - I was only joking about

[ViKing]

I would like to thank everyone who has commented on this forum. Lots of very valid points. It has been a valuable read.

[FutureProdigy]

could not this same line of reasoning - the ineffectivesness of kata - be applied to most of the blocks and other stances we are forced to learn? It seems that the majority of blocks are never used ad the way there taught, definitely not effective

also, out of curiosity... there seems to be a lot of subjective opinion on the matter... is there no authoritative statements made by sosai or any other important historical karateka on the matter?

I am new to kyokushion and all this bickering is confusing to a beginner. If there is no merit in the application of doing kata why do we not then just eliminate it? Is it fear from breaking from tradition? Would we then just become another form of kickboxing, etc?

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

could not this same line of reasoning - the ineffectivesness of kata - be applied to most of the blocks and other stances we are forced to learn? It seems that the majority of blocks are never used ad the way there taught, definitely not effective

also, out of curiosity... there seems to be a lot of subjective opinion on the matter... is there no authoritative statements made by sosai or any other important historical karateka on the matter?

I am new to kyokushion and all this bickering is confusing to a beginner. If there is no merit in the application of doing kata why do we not then just eliminate it? Is it fear from breaking from tradition? Would we then just become another form of kickboxing, etc?

If you aren't just playing Devil's Advocate, Future Prodigy, then I do suggest that you ask your Sensei to detail the use of the Kihon for you. Just the uses for the basic rising block can take ages to practice, and are some cruelly fun applications.

The best reason to train something is because you know its worth...

Osu!

[FutureProdigy]

Dent - I was being serious :S .

I have been told by my sensei the reason for doing katas and then i read that these exact reasons are incorrect and at best misleading. So, as a beginner i am stuck in a state of confussion. I then instinctively ask, if katas, at best, have no inherent 'worth' -which we can posit from this and other threads on the matter - then what about the other parts of training. Kihon seems to have a lot of seemingly useless moves, stances and blocks. For example, when i watch kumite, to the untrained eye... it seems like there is only a couple blocks utilized and none of which resemble the traiditonal ones i'm being taught.

I've become quite skeptical of the karate training method after reading the views of the practicing karateka's on their own training system. I do not understand why people continue to practice in such a way if they do not see the merit. Then again, this is all coming from the eyes of a beginner/outsider.

[smoothsake]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I do want to reply to FutureProdigy.

Jiyu Kumite - or "Free Kumite" - is exactly that, you are free to use whatever technique works for you. If you are a gedan and shita tsuki guy, and that's all you want to use, then by all means you are free to do that. It's what is effective for you.

Just because you don't see someone utilizing the other kihon or bunkai applications of kata in kumite doesn't mean it isn't of merit, it's just not effective for that person for that situation (and through your example kumite/competition). Karate is so much more, and that is why we have a disposal of other weapons and techniques.

Let's not confuse competition fighting with all fighting situations.

Osu

[ViKing]

I believe Kata's are important, firstly especially for beginners we are taught the basic strikes and techniques which are practiced in sets. By using them in kata's it helps to transfer them into practical movements and adds as extra practice. Also Kata's are a important part of gradings, especially for our instructors as kata's allow them to see how we are using them and how effectively we are applying the techniques found in each kata. One aspect my instructor has been focusing on with me at least is staying low through each of the movements and maintaining a solid grounding. Also one of our Sempai's has been teaching us how Kata's and the practical side of learning traditional techniques can be applied to Kumite which I have found has improved my sparring and fighting style. So I believe Kata's play a important role in training.

[Gheorgei]

Very interesting thread, though i dont really know what i can take from it

[tmd]

Originally Posted by Gheorgei

Very interesting thread, though i dont really know what i can take from it

Do Kata with the same strength, speed and focus that you fight and you will become better a better all round karateka