first kata - drills

[supergroup7]

but at that moment, I knew he was a gem, because he "got it".

Wow! That is one fantastic surgeon that you were blest to have there! I wonder if he was a martial artist also.

[DKKC]

Have you tried to do the Taikyoku on the pads? Have a partner holding a pad/bag for you and conect with the blcks and the punches. It'll help develop strong technique and strong stance. If you hit the pad with your forarm while performing a gedan barai and your zenkutsu dachi is not strong enough, you'll lose your balance. We do this at the club sometimes and it does help beginners learn and understand kata better.

[eamoncramb]

kata kata kata can be so complicated but easier as tyou progress


osu

[supergroup7]

I haven't done it with pads, but that sounds intriguing. Would you have two partners helping with the kata so that there aren't too many "waiting" moments as you turn to go in the other direction?

[seienchin]

Osu Supergroup7 - on the contrary, I would suggest that you do get your students to practise kumite-kata. I "grew up" doing this, and it is fun.

Some kata lend themselves to it more easily, but certainly the taikyoku's and early pinan's are good for this.

as for "star kata" video, I have never seen it anywhere else. I actually have wondered if this was an innovation of my Sensei after I struggled for a long time to understand the zenkutsu dachi version. It worked for me, and now I start all beginners in kiba.

If I can describe for you - the most basic version in kiba dachi, with just gedan barai (which is how you now which directin you are facing!).

Moves as numbered below:

1. move migi foot back so that you are in kiba dachi kyu-ju-do, with hidari gedan barai, and looking hidari.
2. Look migi, and block migi gedan barai.
3. Move migi foot anticlockwise 90 degrees, with hidari gedan barai, and looking hidari
4. Look migi, and block migi gedan barai.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 three more times, so that you end up back in hidari kiba-dachi kyu-ju-do.
6. Step through (forwards) into migi kiba dachi kyu-ju-do, punching jun-tsuki.

When I was learning, I found this sequence much easier than the zenkutsu version, which involved moving the foot that does move through lots of varying angles.
However, once I understood the IDEA from thsi kata, it became a simple case of zenkutsu dachi, and mawatte, move anti-clockwise 90%, and mawatte etc etc.

By now, this is probably clear as mud....but at least I tried!

[supergroup7]

Seienchin! Your description of the Star kata reminds me of the Juji kata that I recently performed for my Yellow belt requirements (6th kyu).

Juji kata is done in Zenkutsu dachi with just Gedan Berai, and follows the 90 degree turns like you described looking forwards, and then back. In a way, the embusen ends up looking like a "+" because you keep the left foot in the same place throughout the kata, and you turn around the center. Then the last move , you step through and punch chudan oi tsuki.

Kihon sono ichi is different. I'll see if I can talk my husband into videotaping me doing it with our digital camera, and I'll place it for you to see.. then you can tell me if you are familiar with it.

[supergroup7]

I've never done a "sparring" kind of kata. I've always been reluctant to do so as kyu belt. Sure.. I've had the desire within me to attempt it, but I'm concerned about how it would be 'seen' by my Sempai, and Sensei. I'm still grasping at learning the lessons contained in the traditional Taikyoku Sono Ichi. If I cannot achieve proper stance, and technique in my basic kata, I feel that it would be wrong for me to assume that I could attempt to perform a variation of that kata. I also have to think about what the effect would be on my fellow students of my dojo by introducing "something new".

Perhaps what I will do is approach my Sensei and ask him if it would be "o.k." for me to try Taikyoku Sono Ichi in sparring mode as an experiment once in awhile. If he feels that I'm not ready, then I can wait. I don't mind waiting until later to adapt my kata to fighting stance.

[blackshield]

Hi everyone - thanks for the responses. I can see you all think quite highly of this kata as a good training tool. I can see where you are coming from with respect to perfecting the movement and the simple sequence and moves mean that you can concentrate more highly on power generation etc very specifically. However, (and I am playing devils advocate a little here), for me all of the lessons that you mentioned that were particular to this kata could all be gleaned from good kihon and kihon ido... to me kata should be more than this... the perfecting of mevement and power generation - stability of stance - etc etc can be focused on in any kata and any kihon work - but where kata is different is that there are some underlying principles with make up the 'ethos' of the kata. It shows you a particular area of fighting which you can explore - both in mindset and technique. This is why the same movement in one kata will have differing bunkai... because they are exploring different principles. I know that you mentioned bunkai for these kata - but I cannot see any ethos running through the kata per se, and so what principles (in particular) are these bunkai exploring?
I understand the sentiment of the most simple form being the most advanced - and going back to it as a 'master' but the same again could be said for kihon etc...

[Spirit]

Bunki is kumite kata, once it is done at standard speed. It helps you to understand the emplied parts of the katas as well the"hiden" moves too as you improve the understood moves.
Think of bunkai as ippon or sanbon kumite...
Doing kata with pads is a great workout and it is also a good deversion for the kids to...just need a few teens/adults to hold all the pads (works best with 4 or more peolpe who know the kata and move to each point quikly without you needing to direct them)
Again pad kata is the same as bag work for kumite you now have something to block and or strike... make the kata much more alive and gives it validation too.

[blackshield]

Hmmm.... I don't think I am asking my questions very well, sorry about that - I have a tendency to wander off point:

I do understand Bunkai and Kata - having studied Goju for some years, my question is not really to gain an understanding of what bunkai 'IS' but what principles the bunkai for this specific kata are based upon.

The argument I was trying to suggest (all be it a bit cheekily ) is that if there is no particular ethos or principles underlying the movements/bunkai of this kata then it becomes nothing more than (or at least has no more benefit than) kihon ido...

[DKKC]

Hi supergroup7, I believe that jap man has just answered your question. We use 2 people only on the pads and 1 doing the kata.

Blackshield - a good book about principles of kata bunkai studying is 'The Way of Kata' by Lawrence A. Kane and Kris Wilder

[supergroup7]

is that if there is no particular ethos or principles underlying the movements/bunkai of this kata then it becomes nothing more than (or at least has no more benefit than) kihon ido...

I believe that the "ethos" or principle of the Basic kata is the same as Kihon Ido geiko: to get the practioner to move, and perform technique properly.

However, in the Basic kata there is also a secondary goal: To become familiar with the embusen of the advanced kata.

Taikyoku Sono Ichi has almost the same embusen as Pinan sono ichi. The beginning student will see the similarity right away, and will have less difficulty with the various 180 degree turns, and the 260 degree turns at the kiai points. These basic turns are some of the more difficult movements to perform with speed, control, and power in any kata.

[blackshield]

hmmm... seems to be going round in circles here a bit - you're right DKKC... that book is quite good, as is 'bunkai jutsu' by iain abernethy... however i feel both of them deal more with looking and unlocking applications, rather than looking at the katas as a system - complete with its own methodology. The problem I have with this is that it leads people to putting any applications they like to moves within a kata just because they can... rather than looking at what areas of combat that particular kata is dealing with, and looking at which applications would most fit with that...

[DKKC]

Blackshield, I wonder if 'Five Years, One Kata' by Bill Burgar would be a more appropriate read, then ... I reckon ...

[blackshield]

yes that is quite a good one too... The kata book i am most looking forward to reading is the forthcoming '4 shades of black'

[DKKC]

I haven't heard of this one blackshield - who's written it and where do you think I can find it?
Thanks

[blackshield]

written by shihan gavin mulholland - i am not sure where to get it yet, but i was told it will be available soon - i will keep you informed when i hear more. It is supposed deal with kata as a progressive method of fight training.

[DKKC]

Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for it!

[Mindster]

I recommend this topic... so much good information, Satori, thanks for the tips, they are pretty good for beginners... seienchin's post have a good point of view for beginners to read and understand about taikyoku pretty good

ps.: nzproud, i wish i could draw as you =(

[tansei]

I have never heard of the kihon katas. The first kata in our syllabus is the taikyoku sono ichi. This sounds like transition katas to slowly learn the taikyoku's.

When we practice the kata, we do it both slowly to practice endurance, understand the shifting of body weight, proper stance, etc. and faster as if in combat. We encourage the student to use their imagination and visualize a fight.