first kata - drills

[blackshield]

can anyone tell me the names of the first kyokushin kata... (and maybe the 3 practice katas that come first??) - and a place online where i may be able to get some imformation on them?

[vapor]

would you be referring to

Taikyoku 1,2,3 ?

vapor

[Shokei Marcsui]

Taikyoku Sono Ichi, Taikyoku Sono Ni, Taikyoku Sono San

YouTube - Taikyoku sono Ichi Kyokushinkai kata

YouTube - Taikyoku sono Ni Kyokushinkai kata

YouTube - Taikyoku sono San Kyokushinkai kata

[supergroup7]

Maybe blackshield is referring to Kihon Sono Ichi, Ni , and San and Shiho Tsuki Ichi, Ni, and San??

These Kihon kata are practice kata that allow a student to get used to moving in four directions, blocking, striking, and turning. These kata are almost like individual arranged practice drill sessions.

Depending on your Sensei, you could be doing any combination of techniques in a variety of directions.

But I'll describe Kihon Sono Ichi that I'm familiar with to see if it is the kata that you are familiar with:

Stepping to the left in Hidari Zenkutsu Dachi ( left front stance) perform a Hidari Gedan Berai ( left down block)/ Jodan Gyaku Tsuki ( High reverse punch)

Using the back leg to turn 180 degrees into a Migi Zenkutsu Dachi ( right front stance) perform Migi Gedan Berai ( right down block)/ JOdan Gyaku Tsuki ( High reverse punch)

Using back leg, and just shifting it slightly face front to do the same arm combinations.

Using back leg, execute mawatte ( turn) to face behind you, and down block/reverse punch.

Back leg initiating turn again, face front, and down block/ reverse punch ending up with left leg forwards in front stance.

Without lifting out of stance, repeat the sequence starting to the right side just by shifting your right leg over to that side.

Altogether the sequence ends up being left, right, front, back, front, right, left, front, back, front. with a Gedan Berai/ Gyaku Tsuki done in each direction.

I did some internet searching for information for you, for information, or a video, but WOW.. there isn't much. Youtube is empty for that one. It will be like finding a needle in a haystack to get information on such a basic kata. Also, it may not be exactly the same as what you are doing in your dojo, and it might confuse you.

[Shokei Marcsui]

Maybe blackshield is referring to Kihon Sono Ichi, Ni , and San and Shiho Tsuki Ichi, Ni, and San??

I have not heard of these kihon kata? Is that part of IKO3 Syllabus?

[blackshield]

thatks very much everyone i think the taikyoku katas are the ones i was taught - I find them a little bit peculiar at the moment - do they have a value beyond basic kihon ido?

[seienchin]

There is not room on the board to list all the values of the Taikyoku kata. I still start every kata practice session with one or more of them.

Firstly, they are, as you ahve observsed, a good reinforcement of ido-kihon.This question can be answered in part by the general discussion of what kata training offers a karateka...from previosu posts, I can guess that at least two (?dozen) of my colleagues on teh Board will want to chip in about that...

So - I am not the romantic who thinks that you can prepare for the world tournament by practising your kata alone in the mountains...Sorry.

However, any kata teaches you the following things:'
Mental focus
Visualisation
speed
focus
Accuracy
turns
Breath control
timing
"presence" - the "don't mess with me"thing that black-belts have...and that's just off the top of my head, first thing in the morning...

Now specifically to Taikyoku-s yes, they are basic, and they feel clumsy and artificial, especially if you have come from a freestyle background. But they are the scaffolding upon which we hang so much other work.

Firstly - the deep zenkutsu dachis give you really strong legs and flexible calves. If you can explode out of zenkutsu dachi, when you shorten into fighting stance, you will be lightning quick.
Secondly - the punching and blocking movements associated with turns are a chance to learn to explore the concept of "tame" - pooled energy. If you store the momentum of the turn in your hips by keeping them pointing away from the turn, then at the last minute throw power and speed into flicking your hips through, you will have the same phenomenon that makes a whip crack...stored energy, accelerating at the last minute. Of all the things taikyoku taught me, this was the most valuable, and I only really "got it" at about brown-belt level.

Hmmm- then there is the beginnign steps of identifying Bunkai - looks to me based on early postings that Supergroup7 is going to be a Bunkai magnet, so keep an eye out for those posts.

So, perservere. they seem simple. They are not.

[Satori]

Just a tip for beginners learning taikyoku: once you learn all the moves, try doing it very very slowly. I'm talking about tai chi speed. By doing it extremely slowly so that it barely seems you're moving, you will be able to grasp the finer points very well. This is perhaps most useful for balance since you can't just use your momentum to get into position - you have to perfect the transitions or you'll be wobly.

Also, as with any kata, if you find you know the moves but have a tournament or promotion coming up and you're scared you're going to forget a move, try blitzing through the kata at full speed. Rush it as fast as you can, focusing only on the moves, not on making it look perfect. By performing the kata at huge speeds you simulate being nervous, and if you miss a move when doing it super fast then that's a good indicator you don't yet have it quiet down.

[nzproud]

Try to keep the same height.

[seienchin]

Nice - stick-man...maybe this could be a late entry in the banner comp?

If I might try to say the same thing with words (as it is a very good point, and worth repeating)...

with this kata, it is good to imagine that you are in a room with a ceiling that is very low. Try to do the kata with the top of your head in contact with the "ceiling" at all times - so your "height" stays the same, as NZ proud as so eloquently drawn...

[Martin H]

Kihon Sono Ichi, Ni , and San and Shiho Tsuki Ichi, Ni, and San

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

I have not heard of these kihon kata? Is that part of IKO3 Syllabus?

The word is that they were created by Shigeru Oyama before he left kyokushin, when he was the head of kyokushin in USA (although he only made kihon kata -2, 3-4 have been made later I think). They are occasionally seen in the US, but is _very_ rare anywhere else.
I know that kihon kata 1-4 is part of the US IKO3 grading syllabus for 10th kyu. But I dont think Shiho tsuki are formally part of the syllabus

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by Martin H

The word is that they were created by Shigeru Oyama before he left kyokushin, when he was the head of kyokushin in USA (although he only made kihon kata -2, 3-4 have been made later I think). They are occasionally seen in the US, but is _very_ rare anywhere else.
I know that kihon kata 1-4 is part of the US IKO3 grading syllabus for 10th kyu. But I dont think Shiho tsuki are formally part of the syllabus

All of the Shihans, sensei's I know from Canada do them... Don't know any American dojo that does them...

As for same hieght in dachi's
The front or stabe leg (leg not moving when switching stance) is seen as a shock absorber... It takes in the hieght adjustment as you move and controls balance and builds up power to be past through the body to the technique...and many other things
quick explainations... it is much longer when I teach it, takes about 2 hours to go through it in class...

[supergroup7]

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

I have not heard of these kihon kata? Is that part of IKO3 Syllabus?

Oh boy... I'm at a loss here. I just know how to perform these kata, I do not know the history, and origin of them.

I'm grateful to Martin H, and Jap Man for their knowledge. It's a nice feeling to think that we Canadian Kyokushin kai have something unique. I can tell you that I've done similar movements/ patterns in my Shotokan training.. wherein we face the four directions and do a sequence of block/counters.

[seienchin]

if these are the ones I think, they are what we call "star kata", or Kihon Kata. We actually teach this one initially in kiba dachi, because then the feet stay still at each of the turns,(a turn in kiba dachi is just a gedan-barai to the opposite side) and it helps the beginner get the idea of moving around the "star".
Once they have that idea, then we put zenkutsu in, then add punches and kicks.
I have seen an in instructor run an entire kihon class with this kata, building extra moves in for the higher belts.
So -yes we have these in Australia too.

[supergroup7]

Sensei Gichin Funakoshi ( the founder of Shotokan karate) said that Taikyoku is a kata "of the most profound character and one to which, upon mastery of the art of karate, an expert will return to select it as the ultimate training kata."

The reason that the Taikyoku are so beneficial to training is that they come down to the very basic simple movements. They bring us to our base, and reveal how solid, or weak our foundation can be. We can see if we are wasting energy through extra movement, announcing our attacks ahead of time, keeping our focus in the right direction, using our balance to our advantage, utilizing our breathing efficiently, turning with control, and speed, etc., etc. It is in the plain/simple moves that one will be able to notice little things that can be improved. The more solid we have our basics, the more stronger will the rest of our karate become.

Although kihon, kumite, and kata are totally different, one will find that as they improve in one aspect of karate, the other parts will benefit exponentially.

Sosai Masutatsu Oyama wrote in one of his books " We should perform these exercises (kata) so exactly that they become a part of our very lives because as fundamentals of karate they may be compared to the letters of an alphabet in that, just as letters are the building blocks of words and sentences, so these fundamentals are the building blocks from which karate is built ".

[supergroup7]

Originally Posted by nzproud

Try to keep the same height.

I believe that this is one of the main lessons of the Taikyoku kata. The effort to maintain constant height involves keeping your support knee bent as you move forwards, and forces your body to send all power into forwards momentum rather than in other directions. This kind of training will speed up your forwards attack, support your balance during kicks, and increase your striking power during kumite.

I agree with Satori to practice this kata in slow speed to watch yourself and finally "see" what you are doing when you move/ attack/ block. After awhile you will be able to feel the difference between a strong position, and a weak one, or/and a well directed technique, and an awkward one.

[supergroup7]

"Hmmm- then there is the beginnign steps of identifying Bunkai - looks to me based on early postings that Supergroup7 is going to be a Bunkai magnet, so keep an eye out for those posts."

Thanks Seienchin. I guess my enchantment with kata is showing.. I'll have to tuck that back in. *blush*

To discuss the bunkai of the various Taikyoku.. oh gosh.. one would need to start up a whole new forum for that. The opening move by itself deserved it's own thread.

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Although kihon, kumite, and kata are totally different, one will find that as they improve in one aspect of karate, the other parts will benefit exponentially.

Not looking to always disagree with you... but they are all the same, same moves, same out come , same mind and spirit, nothing changes except minor differences in executing them and that does not make them different. Even then the mind is the same and so the body understands them as equal.

[seienchin]

Jap Man. Supergroup7. My slant on this is that at the beginning, they seem totally different, and the environment of practising is different. With passsing of years, they merge, blur and become a continuum.

when I was recovering from one of my injuries, there was this magic moment when my orthopaedic surgeon looked at me and said "Now...physiotherapy to get you back to fighting. Sack the physiotherapist. Do your basics and your kata! " I already loved him for putting my knee back together...but at that moment, I knew he was a gem, because he "got it".