new IKO1 kata descriptions?

[Martin H]

IKO1(matsui) has introduced a lot new katas into their grading system.
Does anyone have descriptions or vids of the new katas?

Two brand new katas: "Soke" and "Taizen". any description or preferably vids of them would be appreciated!
Vids of the Bassai dai version they have reintroduced would also be nice
The same goes for "Bo/Tonfa kihon sono ichi" and "Nunchaku nihon sono ichi". (and does the "ichi" signify that there are more on the way?)
(vids of their Reintroduced Tekki/Naihanchi is to be found on youtube).

Is Kata "Chion" the Bo kata also known as "Choun (or chun/chion) no kon"?

Personally I think they should have introduced requirement for propper bunkai for the kata we already had, instead of more new katas, but thats just me. With these kyokushin has almost as many katas as shito ryu, and way more than shotokan.

[Shokei Marcsui]

Interesting post MartinH. We are just working on Chion Bo Kata and we are with IKO-4. Supposedly later on in our progressions we are supposed to learn nunchuk kata and so on. I have not heard of these new katas and would be interested to hear more information from our other IKO-1 brothers.

By the way, what is the meaning of "Soke" and "Taizen"?

[ksan]

Soshu Shiguru Oyama used to practice a Tsjon Kata as a 4th Bo kata in his weapon kata list. Would like to see the first 3 "new" iko1 tonfa and bo kata`s to see how much they differ from the ones i know.

Osu

Ksan

[boldbhoy]

The only katas that are in the new syllabus just now are the 3 Tekis, Bassai dai and The 1st 2 bo katas as far as I know.
I have heard about the others being brought in, but don't know when.
It's all happening gradually, thank God! Or else I couldn't keep up!
We in Scotland are quite lucky when it comes to bunkai as Shihan Marlborough always promotes this aspect. He says hthere's no use in just learning a "dance" to get gradings as it serves no practical purpose!

[smoothsake]

The new kata, particularly bo and tonfa, are being introduced very slowly. To the best of my memory my dojo did practice the bo kata when Shihan Gorai was in L.A. for a kata seminar last year. I will ask around...

[ksan]

Osu Smoothsake,

Do you know if these kata are IKO1 specific (designed by IKO1 themselves), or are they introducing already excisting bo-kata`s from elsewhere.

Osu

Ksan

[feels]

It is a traditional bo kata. Fairly simple in appearance. Utterly Greek to a knockdown karateka.

[Martin H]

Feels do you mean Choun (choun no kon) or the "Bo kihon ichi"

If you mean chion (and that really is the "choun no kon" that was done in kyokushin long ago, only with a slightly different phonetic spelling as I think it is) it is a traditional Bo kata (Kon = okinawan for Bo) created by a kobudo master from Shuri named Soeishi (that lived late 18 century to early 19 century) who also created several other weapon katas.

It is done in many styles in slightly different versions (I once asked Shihan Söderkvist if he had been taught it in kyokushin, and how it looked, and he said he knew atleast 5 versions of it). Tadashi Nakamura teaches one in his style Seido karate.

Just from the name, I have a hard time thinking "Bo kihon sono ichi" is old.

[Billy no mates]

Ive only ever seen Bo kata done a few times and have been utterly unconvinced by it as theyve normally been done by people who just seem to indulging a desire to play with a stick .
Im not saying it cant or shouldnt be done but there are few enough people who can perform Kata with depth and power empty handed,perhaps once weve got to that level we can move onto weapons other than those God gave us .
I know some people are into the whole weapons aspect but ive become increasingly sceptical on it from the demonstrations ive seen of Karateka with weapons over the years,that said im open to enlightenment as perhaps ive just seen the wrong demos .

[feels]

No clue. All I know is that it wasn't an IKO original.

[feels]

Originally Posted by Billy no mates

Ive only ever seen Bo kata done a few times and have been utterly unconvinced by it as theyve normally been done by people who just seem to indulging a desire to play with a stick .
Im not saying it cant or shouldnt be done but there are few enough people who can perform Kata with depth and power empty handed,perhaps once weve got to that level we can move onto weapons other than those God gave us .
I know some people are into the whole weapons aspect but ive become increasingly sceptical on it from the demonstrations ive seen of Karateka with weapons over the years,that said im open to enlightenment as perhaps ive just seen the wrong demos .

You mean like this...
YouTube - Blind Bo Staff Form - Brandon

Haha, I can see where you're coming from.

I'm a little curious about when someone could use a bo or tonfa in a real situation. It's not like one could practically carry one on him, in case "someone tries to act a fool."

[Billy no mates]

Originally Posted by feels

You mean like this...
YouTube - Blind Bo Staff Form - Brandon

Haha, I can see where you're coming from.

I'm a little curious about when someone could use a bo or tonfa in a real situation. It's not like one could practically carry one on him, in case "someone tries to act a fool."

I never leave home without my tapered Bo.....

[boldbhoy]

Just watched that youtube video Feels.
It reminds me of the guy you would see at the front of an Orange flute band with all his mates cheering and all the Catholics shouting abuse and hoping he drops it!!

[ksan]

Bo kata was introduced into the IFK in 2004. The instructor translated a few of the excisiting kata`s to a Bo form. We also did selfdefense with the bo. I think more of the selfdefence with the Bo than of the kata`s, because nationally we already use the Bo kata`s from WOK.

Osu

Ksan

[boldbhoy]

I don't know the full reasoning why weapons are being added to our syllabus, but I will try to remember to ask my instructor soon.
I have only been doing the 1st 2 bo katas which I found easy to
memorise the directions, blocks and strikes, but I need to really improve my technique. There's massive room for improvement!
Very pertinent point from Billy no mates re depth and power, Osu!

[Billy no mates]

Originally Posted by boldbhoy

Very pertinent point from Billy no mates re depth and power, Osu!

Its not that i want to poo-poo the very idea or anything but i do wonder if we are kinda kidding ourselves by getting involved with weapons,perhaps im judging everyone by my own(poor)standard but until i can really utilise my hands,elbows,head and legs with depth and power i would really struggle to justify spending time on Sai,Tonfa,Bo or Jo,if we are going to get into weaponry maybe we should be looking at how to use knives,bottles or glass ashtrays(less usefu now what with the smoking ban i suppose) hhmmmnnn i feel a demo coming on perhaps Tsuki no Kata using two broken Grolsch bottles.....

[seienchin]

Osu Billy no Mates...I agree, but I was feeling a bit "old fogey-ish" until you piped up....I was always taught that Sosai repudiated the use of weapons until advanced dan grades. I have always thought weapons training to be something entertaining and marketable, but something of an affectation (sorry if I am offending weapons practitioners out there...this is just my view) in an art called "empty hand".

I am puzzled why IKO is taking this step.

[Billy no mates]

Weapon practitioners are fine and by that i mean people that practice an art centred on weapon(s) such as Jodo that practice to use their weapons the way we should practice using ours,im puzzled by it aswell (it doesn't take much i admit) but im quite willing to be won over .

[ksan]

Originally Posted by seienchin

I am puzzled why IKO is taking this step.

One reason i can think of is that knowing how to use a weapon will make the defense against one easier....

[Bloke]

Thus the Knife work in Switzerland on the Black belt course in 2004.