History of Japanese Kickboxing

[smoothsake]

Can someone give me a synopsis of how Japanese kickboxing came to be? I know after the Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai fights held in Bangkok and later in Tokyo, some Kyokushin karateka found their way to compete professionally in Thailand. Were they the pioneers of developing the Japanese version of MT-style kickboxing in Japan?

[Kris]

I am sure that Martin H knows about this.

[ksan]

I know that Kenji Kurosaki is one of the pioneers if not the founder of Japanese kickboksing...

[Shura]

Japanese Kickboxing developed from a synthesis of Muay Thai and various karate styles (especially Kyokushin). Kyokushin karateka such as Terutomo Yamazaki, Akio Fujihira (under the ring name Noboru Osawa), and Hatsuo Royama fought as Japanese-style kickboxers for a while. Kenji Kurosaki was especially one of the leading figures in Japanese Kickboxing. After losing in Thailand, Kurosaki decided to learn Muay Thai and later founded Mejiro Gym. Mejiro Gym trained some of the best fighters in the 1960's and 1970's especially the legendary Toshio Fujiwara and the indomitable Mitsuo Shima (my favorite old-school Japanese kickboxer). Another result of Kurosaki's influence was his acceptance of several foreign students. One of them a karateka named Jan Plas was so impressed with the conditions and discipline of Mejiro Gym that he received Kurosaki's blessing in opening up the Netherlands branch of Mejiro Gym. There, Plas would train pioneers in Dutch Kickboxing/Muay Thai like Rob Kaman, Andre Brilleman, Tommy van de Berg, Leo de Snoo (who tragically passed away recently. one of my favorite Dutch fighters), Fred Royers (an announcer for Eurosport now), and many other leading fighters in the history of Dutch Kickboxing/Muay Thai. Another foreigner who trained in Mejiro was Patrick Brizon, who returned to his native France and actively promoted Muay Thai and Japanese-style Kickboxing events with Roger Pachy, one of France's earliest proponents of Muay Thai (even went to train there for a while).
A while back I managed to get a copy of an old article from Black Belt magazine in 1968 and it described to American readers, the sport of Japanese Kickboxing. It describes the training conditions that was at Mejiro Gym and the fighters who were there at the time. Tadashi Sawamura, Japan's first kickboxer and something of a legend in Japanese Muay Thai/Kickboxing circles is also mentioned in the article.
The article states that Mejiro fighters practice six nights a week and undergo a very strict regimen of training. Trainees are constantly in motion with high work rate except for the one minute rest between rounds, which start and end with the three-minute intervals. Aspiring kickboxers train usually for at least an hour and a half involving sessions of three circuits of 3-minute rounds of calisthenics, shadow-boxing, body-bag work, kicking tires (to condition shins and feet), weights, speed bag, skipping rope, and sparring.
Gym manager Harumoto Endo said the energy consumption is about three to one compared to regular boxing. Endo claimed that most karateka can't stand this pace; they're not in good enough shape for Kickboxing.They don't last long in a ring against kickboxers because they are not accustumed to taking a punch. In his words, "Their flesh is soft and not toughen up from repeated beatings,so they go down easily."
It's also interesting to note that quite a bit of Japan's kickboxers were originally students of karate and kenpo. As a result, cross-pollination between Muay Thai training and the lessons learned from karate/kenpo resulted. Some of Mejiro's fighters like Tadashi Sawamura and Isao Fujimoto were originally goju-ryu practitioners while Jun Nishikawa was a shotokan karateka. But after Sawamura got beaten in Thailand (knocked down 16 times in 4 rounds!), the young karateka underwent serious training and revamped his techniques at Kurosaki's Mejiro Gym. Genshu Igari, another pioneer in the sport of Japanese Kickboxing who KO'd several Thai champions (including Rajaddamnern and Lumpinee title ones) was originally trained in Nippon Kenpo, a style that utilized hard sparring with some body protection.

[kakatootoshi]

Dear Shura,
I guess Sawamura Tadashi and Fujimoto Isao trained with Noguchi Osamu's Meguro Gym instead of Shihan Kurosaki's Meijro.

OSU!

[smoothsake]

So without getting into the details of politics, but after Kenji Kurosaki and other karateka left to train in kickboxing, did a rift ensue between them and their former organizations, like the IKO? Or were they encouraged to do so by Sosai?

[Kurisu]

I've always been curious as to how Kurosaki left Kyokushin. Maybe Lonewolf has some details?

[Sonik]

I believe he didn't like the plans Sosai had for the Kyokushin Kaikan regarding the training methods, competition rules etc....

[Kris]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

I know after the Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai fights held in Bangkok and later in Tokyo..

I have heard about this but like to know the details. When was this? What happened? Did the karatekas lose to MT? Is this when the low kick was introduced in Kyokushin ?

[ksan]

Originally Posted by Kurisu

I've always been curious as to how Kurosaki left Kyokushin. Maybe Lonewolf has some details?

Shihan Kurosaki wishes to keep this private (i know this for a fact)

I heard Sosai tried to close the rift between them by naming his youngest daughter after Shihan Kurosaki (as far as know this is correct)

Osu

Ksan

[Sonik]

Kris, in 1964 the Kyokushin Kaikan was challenged and so Sosai sent a team of three of his best fighters and Kenji Kurosaki was their coach. But because one of them got injured during training, Kurosaki took his place. So the team now, Kenji Kurosaki, Hakyo Fujihira and Tadashi Nakamura (founder of Seidojuku Karate). Both Fujihira and Nakamura won their matches. Kurosaki however lost by TKO (broken nose by elbow strike if i'm not mistaken). When tese men returned to Japan, they were welcomed as heros for they had restablished the honour of Karate. But Kurosaki was so impressed by Thai Kickboxing, that he decided to return to Thailand and study more this lethal martial art. I guess he considered Muay Thai more practical and efficient than Karate and probably tried to change Kyokushin Karate wich have led to disagreement between him and Sosai. There are also other possible motives mentioned by Jon Bluming in one of his interviews but i won't mention them here. The fact is, Kurosaki left the Kyokushin Kaikan and became the godfather of Muay Thai/ Japanese Kickboxing in Japan. He instructed many great fighters such as Mitsuo Shima, Toshiyo Fujiwara etc.. In 1974, another great Kyokushin karateka named Yoshiji Soeno decided to test his skills against Muay Thai opponents so he travelled to Thailand where he managed to get some fights and won several, if not all (not sure). He returned to Japan and a few years later he quit the Kyokushin Kaikan and founded his own fighting style - Shidokan Karate.

Ps: you can get to see some footage of Fujihira's match in Thailand on youtube.

[Kris]

Sonik, thanks for that!

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by Sonik

Both Fujihira and Nakamura won their matches. Kurosaki however lost by TKO (broken nose by elbow strike if i'm not mistaken).

I seem to remember a interview with kurosaki where he said it was a cut eyebrow (from a elbow).

[kakatootoshi]

It's the left eye.

OSU!

[Lonewolf]

OSU! In regards to why Shihan Kurosaki left Kyokushin, the reasons were mostly disagreement over the direction Sosai Oyama was taking Kyokushin. Shihan Kurosaki truly believed that Karate(Kyokushin), all Budo should remain exclusive and be available to only an elite, special group of people who would develop into martial artists. If you look at it from the anology of the United States armed forces, almost anyone can be qualified to enter the AIR FORCE, but only a few special, elite can ever qualify to enter the MARINES. Shihan Kurosaki felt that Kyokushin was the Marines of the martial arts, and not be so readily available to even average, everyday people. When he left and entered the world of Japanese Kickboxing, his first dojo was called "MEJIRO GYM". By the very nature of the type of training that went on there, Shihan Kurosaki guaranteed only the most dedicated and qualified people would be there. He focused on training professional fighters, not the masses. Kyokushin was turning into an International Karate Organization with so many branches around the World. Sosai Oyama saw this as a good thing, Shihan Kurosaki did not. Kurosaki was seriously concerned about the future of real Budo Karate and decided to leave Kyokushinkaikan. Some people say it was after his lost to a Muay-Thai fighter in Thailand. That is nonsense. Shihan Kurosaki left Kyokushin in 1976, his fight in Thailand was in 1964. Alot of people are unaware of this time frame. Shihan was fascinated by the Thai fighting style and their professionalism as fighters. So, he concentrated his energy in that direction. However, he still did it from a "Japanese" perspective, hence we have the sport of Japanese Kickboxing. Shihan even created the "Shin Kakuto Jitsu" style, at one point, as a way to create something Japanese that would be superior to Muay-Thai. Shihan Kurosaki was always pro Japanese, himself coming from a family with Samurai ancestors. Shihan Kurosaki was a true Budo-Ka that did things his way, regardless of backlash or popular opinion. OSU!

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

as mentioned by sonik, kancho soeno started the shidokan karate organization. to this day shidokan has it's roots in knockdown karate (bare knuckle with clinching and throwing), and has added muay thai and grappling arts (judo, jujitsu, submission wrestling). he started his organization 1981 and it has spread worldwide to 30 plus countries. the shidokan also has it's own thai boxing organization called shikon thai boxing.

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

If you look at it from the anology of the United States armed forces, almost anyone can be qualified to enter the AIR FORCE, but only a few special, elite can ever qualify to enter the MARINES.

This is a silly analogy, no offense meant but it really is. It all boils down to what you do in the MARINES, usaf, army, navy, etc. I wish I caught this much earlier.
If you said something like some type of SOC/SOF that would be a better analogy. Using special forces, JSOC, "delta force", SAS, DEVGRU, Rangers, etc. than just saying Marines.
With that being said all my respect for a Marine sniper, force recon, MARSOC "operator", etc.

Last but least, the ASVAB score for Marines is second to last at 32 with Army being 31 and I believe I heard hints of this being lowered/waived.
USAF requires at least 36...Coast guard requires 40, go figure.
*If you score in the 30s/40s/50s/60s you're not working with me *

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

Last but least, the ASVAB score for Marines is second to last at 32 with Army being 31 and I believe I heard hints of this being lowered/waived.
USAF requires at least 36...Coast guard requires 40, go figure.

Could you explain this a little further, PowerofOne?

Osu!

[Kurisu]

I think the better analogy would have been navy seals, green berets, army rangers or some other special forces unit.

[Shamo]

This is why I love this forum, so much to learn that isn't so easily found on the internet!

Thank you all for the information.