kyokushin conversion. No return?

[koji112091]

Originally Posted by JohnMc

Kyokushin would still be pure. Not everybody that steps into a dojo [be it Kyokushin or any other MA] dreams of being a pro fighter. It should be an individual choice and leave it at that. I don't think there should be a hard line rule for or against fighting professionally.

Btw. Sosai Oyama toured the US as a pro wrestler years ago. Does that mean he soiled the budo and humility of Kyokushin?

I agree.
It is an insult to say that all professional athleat competes only for the money.
Not just kyokushin fighters, but also a lot profesional athleats preform with heart and integrety.

andrewkyokushin. Do you really think that all pros fit in the catagory you described, if so then except correction. OSU!

[Sonik]

Originally Posted by JohnMc

Kyokushin would still be pure. Not everybody that steps into a dojo [be it Kyokushin or any other MA] dreams of being a pro fighter. It should be an individual choice and leave it at that. I don't think there should be a hard line rule for or against fighting professionally.

Btw. Sosai Oyama toured the US as a pro wrestler years ago. Does that mean he soiled the budo and humility of Kyokushin?

Very good point.


Regarding Sosai, i read that he fought in Thailand once against a guy named Black Cobra. Does anybody have any info on this ? Are there any photos available? Or a tape? I would like to see this. Or his tournaments in Japan. And his training with Masahiko Kimura. Are there pictures of this in any of his books? I would love to have this.

I've seen some videos of Sosai training and demosntrating technqiues but never saw graphic register of his fights or sparring sessionsd uring the early times of Kyokushin.

Same goes for Kyokushin legends such as Kenji Kurosaki, Hakyo Fujihira, Terutomo Yamazaki, Hatsuo Royama, Yoshiji Soeno, Makoto Nakamura and Takashi Azuma.

[seienchin]

Again, I would state - the only real issue I have here is with the promoters, not with fighters who need to make a living.

Profit, and having to make money, changes the ethics of the whole situation. I don't have a problem with individuals choosing this. I just feel sorry for them, that there is no other way, than to join this world of highly variable, and often questionable ethics.

Profit, and the pursuit of it, are behind so many woes in the martial arts world. Commercial fight promoters are but one manifestation of it, and one that I would exhort any student of mine to avoid.

[JohnMc]

Originally Posted by Sonik

Very good point.


Regarding Sosai, i read that he fought in Thailand once against a guy named Black Cobra. Does anybody have any info on this ? Are there any photos available? Or a tape? I would like to see this. Or his tournaments in Japan. And his training with Masahiko Kimura. Are there pictures of this in any of his books? I would love to have this.

I've seen some videos of Sosai training and demosntrating technqiues but never saw graphic register of his fights or sparring sessionsd uring the early times of Kyokushin.

Same goes for Kyokushin legends such as Kenji Kurosaki, Hakyo Fujihira, Terutomo Yamazaki, Hatsuo Royama, Yoshiji Soeno, Makoto Nakamura and Takashi Azuma.

Thanks Sonik. I would love to see pictures or videos of Sosai's training and fights. Sadly I haven't come across anything yet.

Originally Posted by seienchin

Again, I would state - the only real issue I have here is with the promoters, not with fighters who need to make a living.

Profit, and having to make money, changes the ethics of the whole situation. I don't have a problem with individuals choosing this. I just feel sorry for them, that there is no other way, than to join this world of highly variable, and often questionable ethics.

Profit, and the pursuit of it, are behind so many woes in the martial arts world. Commercial fight promoters are but one manifestation of it, and one that I would exhort any student of mine to avoid.

While I admit there are some shady if not downright scumbag promoters out there this problem is not exclusive to the fight game. I'm sure everyone here has worked for a boss with questionable ethics at one time or another.

The pursuit of profit is behind so many woes in the world in general. It not just exclusive to martial arts.

[Sonik]

Originally Posted by seienchin

Again, I would state - the only real issue I have here is with the promoters, not with fighters who need to make a living.

Profit, and having to make money, changes the ethics of the whole situation. I don't have a problem with individuals choosing this. I just feel sorry for them, that there is no other way, than to join this world of highly variable, and often questionable ethics.

Profit, and the pursuit of it, are behind so many woes in the martial arts world. Commercial fight promoters are but one manifestation of it, and one that I would exhort any student of mine to avoid.

Yes of course some promoters are no good. But that goes for everything (politicians, cops, firemen, business men...).

By the way i've just read an article which really dispointed me regarding K-1 business practices and the end of K-1 Oceania. The article is about Dixon Mcgyver, the former K-1 Ocenaia promoter describing the reasons why he stoped doing business with K-1 and started his own league (KO Series), with a lot of K-1 interference (but in the bad way).
In this article he accuses Sadaharu Tanikawa, some other K-1 agents and Igor Juhsko (the main K-1 promoter on Europe). He also exposes the reason why Alexey Ignashov has been put aside from K-1 by this russian promoter Igor Juhsko.
And Sadaharu Tanikawa who has been accused of making K-1 look like a circus is obviously under check in this article. Apparently, according to Dixon, Mr. Tanikawa has his own agenda and doesn't seem to respect Kansho Ishi very much, acting on many issues without Kansho Ishi's knowledge. The way he descibes how K-1 handled business with him makes you look at FEG as bunch of people with no ethics at all.


On the other hand he refers to Simon Rutz, who has kept his own thing, the Showtime series without being restrained by K-1, still providing great shows. However he did bring Bob Sapp once, but maybe only to see him being beaten by Peter Aerts and booed by the crowd which has throwned tomatos at him.

I can look out for the link if you're interested.