Grading In Kickboxing?

[A-jay]

In the Netherlands there is some sort of 'grading' for kickboxers.
First you begin in a beginner's class.
After a few wins in this class you can be 'promoted' to C-class, B-class and finally A-class.
The only thing higher would be K-1 which is actually an elite class of course

[ksan]

Originally Posted by A-jay

In the Netherlands there is some sort of 'grading' for kickboxers.
First you begin in a beginner's class.
After a few wins in this class you can be 'promoted' to C-class, B-class and finally A-class.
The only thing higher would be K-1 which is actually an elite class of course

Osu A-Jay,

This is only for competition fighters...its to determine where they fight/ what level... inside the dojo this distinction is rarely used... only large gyms will split up their classes into competition fighters and recreational fighters.... The first class is called N for newcommers (after 5 wins orso you go automatically to C class,... also your trainer can admint you to C Class earlier if you want, its your own choice)....

Osu

[A-jay]

Originally Posted by ksan

Osu A-Jay,

This is only for competition fighters...its to determine where they fight/ what level... inside the dojo this distinction is rarely used... only large gyms will split up their classes into competition fighters and recreational fighters.... The first class is called N for newcommers (after 5 wins orso you go automatically to C class,... also your trainer can admint you to C Class earlier if you want, its your own choice)....

Osu

Osu sensei, thanks for clearing that up

[JohnMc]

Wow. Where do you guys train?

[tmd]

Originally Posted by Dent

We were being phased out with support of the national sports council and the very NGB we were paying fees to.

The result of all this was a lot of nastiness.

A regulatory body will only work with full, and equal, representation. Not a likely event...

Osu!

As far as I know (as a lowly Kyu grade) we have the same issues in the UK with Government funding being handed out like candy to the non contact guys as their voice is generally loader and the type of 'sport' karate or TKD practiced is easier o the eye to the council members. Don't blame the Karate or TKD boys I'd do the same; I blame the short sighted nature of Government organizations not to recognize the diversity within the MA family.

[Dent]

Osu! TMD,

Also to blame are our own reps, who think that what we do stands on it's own merits. I'm all for being the squeaky wheel on this. We must make ourselves heard, or risk extinction.

Osu!

[tmd]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu! TMD,

Also to blame are our own reps, who think that what we do stands on it's own merits. I'm all for being the squeaky wheel on this. We must make ourselves heard, or risk extinction.

Osu!

I think if Kyokushin had stayed as one it would have been a WW sport by now - diversification in our style has meant dilution of power and made us a minority sport - if we could all stand as one once more it would be ever more powerful - it is potentially being discussed in the UK at least on a tournament level to try and gain the kind of exposure that the other styles get.

On a completely cynical note if you look at most MA publications they are run by people who study the style most prominent to the publication and NONE seem to even give us an even hand, the only time I see Kyokushin is when they are paying tribute to a long served patron, they never actually slag us off, they just don't give us much in the way of column inches; to your point Dent is this our fault for not writing it for them !

[Dent]

Osu! TMD,

Originally Posted by tmd

On a completely cynical note if you look at most MA publications they are run by people who study the style most prominent to the publication and NONE seem to even give us an even hand, the only time I see Kyokushin is when they are paying tribute to a long served patron, they never actually slag us off, they just don't give us much in the way of column inches; to your point Dent is this our fault for not writing it for them !

You must be reading my mind!

I was just thinking of how much we've written in here, and what great articles some of these posts could be fleshed into. If we each submitted one article with pictures, that would be 2000 a year!!!

Imagine if it was one in ten? Still a very respectable worldwide figure.

Takers?

Osu!

[tmd]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu! TMD,



You must be reading my mind!

I was just thinking of how much we've written in here, and what great articles some of these posts could be fleshed into. If we each submitted one article with pictures, that would be 2000 a year!!!

Imagine if it was one in ten? Still a very respectable worldwide figure.

Takers?

Osu!

Was thinking of submitting my Blog on Knockdown tho BB Magazine see if they'd publish it?

[Dent]

Osu!

Sounds like a plan. It's current, and with good pictures would make a good story.

Osu!

[Diabolik79]

This probaly depends totally of the particular organization/club. Kickboxing association of finland f.e uses belts from yellow to black. On lower belts you have to show different techniques and have a certain number of training classes behind - in higher belts you have to do that and have experience from competitions (if one is over 30 that part can be ingored If I remember right), teaching and so on. Also black belt requires one to have experience of being a referee in kickboxing match, among other things. There are only about something under 40 black belts total in Finland, even if the sport has been around a long time, back since it was called "full-contact karate". Generally, belts don´t have much practical meaning and many haven´t gone beyond green belt or so eventhough they are experienced practitioners/fighters.

[Nix]

Thank you for the explanation Diabolik79. Does that mean you found a place to practice?

Also, I wonder if the students get actual belts, or just a certificate. Unless you practice in a dogi, a belt is really not needed, is it? And kickboxers don't practice in dogi... or do they? You say you need to "show different techniques". Is it similar to basic training in karate (kihon), or is it simply padwork?

[powerof0ne]

Brasil has "belt ranks" for muay thai, too. I'm telling "you", there are legit gyms/camps with sash/belt ranks in kickboxing/muay thai. Some muay thai gyms even use prajiat(arm bands) as rank or colored t-shirts. I even know of MMA Schools that do this, it's not really that focused on compared to budo arts.
My third muay thai fight was in Canada and it was only about a year and a half of muay thai for me..I was weighing at this gym called "gold lion" and remember asking a guy there what sash are you? He looked at me weird and said nobody really cared much about rank at the gym. Trevor Smandych of Mike Miles gym who lost on the first episode of "Asian contender" also fought on that same card(he beat Mark Brackenbury on that card). We had to have a CMTA passport book that was stamped with our rank. Back than the CMTA pretty much authorized all the Vancouver, BC Muay Thai/kickboxing cards.
2 of the 3 styles I trained in that had rank also had something similar to kata. They were fighting combinations for each rank kind of like the Enshin kata but always done with a partner. "Coincidentally", one of them later added this and first learned kickboxing/muay thai under the person teaching the other style.
To be a black sash under the MTIA practically requires you to have fought for a pro world muay thai title. To be a master requires you to have trained 2 or more world champions. When I trained at Master Toddy's I saw Ben Garcia(was on MTV's True life special on muay thai), and he wasn't wearing a sash...Gina Caranno wasn't wearing a sash...and other pro fighters weren't too. 1. The sash comes off very easy 2. if you're a world champion do you really need a black belt/sash?
I know that the PKA and WKA "used to" issue Dan rankings, too. Not sure if they still do but I trained for a while with one of these black belts, he got it in England in the 80s and his full contact kickboxing was pretty solid(think he trained at Master A's).
This guy is also a cop, has been in the DEA, SWAT team etc. so I'm pretty confident that his claim of being a 1st Dan in kickboxing was true. The fact that he was built like a bodybuilder and could do the jump splits like Bas Rutten also made his claim believable too, go figure.

[Diabolik79]

Originally Posted by Nix

Thank you for the explanation Diabolik79. Does that mean you found a place to practice?

Also, I wonder if the students get actual belts, or just a certificate. Unless you practice in a dogi, a belt is really not needed, is it? And kickboxers don't practice in dogi... or do they? You say you need to "show different techniques". Is it similar to basic training in karate (kihon), or is it simply padwork?

Thanks for your comment

In here we got the certificates, belt is optional I think. Some clubs don´t wear them at all, some wear belts with "official" kickboxing shorts or pants. But using then anyway is totally optional. No, I at least have not heard of any club who practise kb in dogi. Might be those in some other countries though. Also one noteworthy thing about the situation in finland is that there is a clear line between thai and kickboxing. While (from what I have heard) mixtures of these sports appear often in many countries and the borders are not so strict everywhere. Here they are 2 completely different sports, even if
many have done both or even fight in both. As said, kickboxing´s roots in finland are in what used to be "full-contact karate" something like 20 years ago and originhally appeared in USA I think. Whereas Muay Thai has been imoroted straight from thailand from thai teachers. So this is different compared to f.e Holland where (according to my knowledge) kickboxing often CAN mean some mixture of kyokushin, muay thai and "american kickboxing". Just rough example tohugh. Yeah, I the belt gradings the techniques must be done in a bit kihon like way, meaning - from the fighting stance and controlled
kicks/strikes to the air. Might be that pad work is also combined with this. As is sparring from green belt onwards. Yes, I am currently training at kickbocing gym - but still looking forwards to to be able to do kyokushin or other knockdown karate in the future Whatever I will do, I´m sure that training kicks and punches won´t do bad for it

[wakajishi]

There are several reputable gyms/organisations in a Austraila and New Zealand that run a grading system.

Mark Castigani who is the general manager for International Kickboxer Magazine (which in my opinion is one of the best martial arts mags in the south pacfic) runs his gyms using a grading system, and has done for sometime.
In fact in the latest issue of the mag he writes an article supporting the more structured line system ( similar to karate) approach to training which he uses to teach muay thai .

Mark is a Muay Thai practitoner through and through but has been influenced by many great kyokushin instructors he's encountered over the years and has adopted some of kyokushin's teaching methods.
The Bob Jones corporation which pioneered kickboxing and Muay Thai in Australia also uses a grading system.

Both these schools and others I've encountered do not use a belt system (as they do not wear a gi) but have a singlet sytem, where different coloured singlets are awarded for different levels, black being the highest in the schools that I trained at.

Their syllabus consists of punching and kicking skils , footwork and defence, partner drills pad & bag work and sparing and fitness testing. Their students even have to be able to adapt their kickboxing technique from a ring sport to the street for self defence.

I have also trained at kyokushin dojo's which teach KB as well and they run a similar system and turn out good kickboxers.
Hope that sheds a little light on things.

[powerof0ne]

My last muay thai certificate was in 03:


That being said, I was approached first by my first Kru/coach, Alberto Ramirez(MUAY THAI- Welcome) to do the assistant instructor training and than later did training privately with Master Toddy, Luukchang, and Chan about 5 years later. I was fortunate enough to be one of the last people I know of to train privately with Master Toddy..he primarily does group sessions now. Kato sensei(daido juku) also trained privately with my first Kru, under Master Toddy to be a fighter and instructor for muay thai.
I actually learned more about fighting overall in Muay Thai than I have in Karate, but I'm by no means saying that this is always the way it is. I think I was just fortunate enough to train with higher caliber Thaiboxers and Kickboxers than I was with as high level karateka. Just the luck of my draw, or something along those lines.
I hope to be testing for my "3rd dan/sandan" in another full contact karate/kickboxing system if I heal up anytime this century. I won't say under who or what yet, because it's somewhat premature since I'm by no means able to do any type of test yet.

[senshido]

IME in the UK many clubs that advertise themselves as "kickboxing" are not that at all.
Most are some kind of variation of TKD or Freestyle Karate and many of them wear coloured suits where the jacket pulls over the head (like TKD suits) and have a coloured belt system.
I share a dojo with one such club and as the Instructor and many of his Students now train with me also which has resulted in the style of fighting in this club changing drastically.
I have some converts who now fight in knockdown tournaments & they now have some fighters who have been very successful in Muay Thai fights.
Before the introduction of Knockdown karate to this area they fought "points tournaments" in a way very similar to the TKD you see in the olympics.
To sum up... almost every "kickboxing" club I have been to or seen should probably be called "Freestyle"
The belt system used in my local club is purely for the kids to have a goal to aim for.

[tmd]

Second 100% what Senshido says - a lot of what is called a kickboxing club is actually a points based fighting system much more like free style karate.