Differences between muay thai kicks and kyokushin...

[FutureProdigy]

Due to a hectic work schedule i have had to resort to taking muay thai classes in place of kyokushin and i have noticed many differences in techniques. I was hoping the more experienced members of the board here might be better able to explain the differences between the various kicks (specifically the basic round house).

The muay thai round house looks extremely ugly. I've been told to basically swing your leg, totally straight, around and use your hips. No snapping like in karate. Why is this? The kyokushin way seems much faster and just as hard?

[smoothsake]

Don't know why this is, but yes the chudan mawashi is different - it's a straight leg with no snap. The other difference is their low kicks. MT (because of the head punch factor) move to the side when they low kick as opposed to staying straight up like in Kyokushin. Their punches are different too. Hard to explain in text but check it out next time.

[schuyler]

Thai kicks swing at an angle because they focus on the ribs. Obviously thai boxers can punch to the face, so the emphasis on kicking to the head is not the same as Kyokushin. I would argue that a thai kick to the ribs is as fast, if not faster, then a chudan mawashigeri (probably harder as well). Thai kicks to the head however are no match for a good jodan mawashigeri. Thai low kicks, in my experience, are very similar to Kyokushin low kicks. When I took Thai boxing classes back in Seattle, I was constantly being corrected when we practiced middle kicks on the thai pads. Thai boxers can't seem to wrap their minds around chambering a kick.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

The muay thai round house looks extremely ugly. I've been told to basically swing your leg, totally straight, around and use your hips. No snapping like in karate. Why is this? The kyokushin way seems much faster and just as hard?

I had a hard time with making the adjustment during MT training. Personally, I think both have their uses. The Kyokushin version is for tactical striking, while the MT one is a good baseball-swing thumper. Great for arm kicking in particular.

Osu!

[ksan]

there is no difference.. both kicks can be used effectively in both styles....

[Nix]

I practiced MT while on vacation in Thailand, and was constantly corrected. Meant to make a blog entry about it, but haven't got around to do it. But yes, there was considerable difference, and I never understodd the logic of the MT kick, except that it is supposed to hit below the guard. As ksan says, you can use the MT kick in karate too, but I usually modify it so that I get the wind-up. To me, that kick seems faster, plus it's better for the joints.

One thing that really annoyed me, was that I was not allowed to do anything but front kick and the odd "mawashi geri". They tried to keep me from doing mae keage, ushiro, ushiro mawashi keage etc., but since I'm an arrogant show-off, I quickly learned to ignore that.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by Nix

One thing that really annoyed me, was that I was not allowed to do anything but front kick and the odd "mawashi geri". They tried to keep me from doing mae keage, ushiro, ushiro mawashi keage etc., but since I'm an arrogant show-off, I quickly learned to ignore that.

No! You?! A show off??? I can't even begin to believe it!!!

Osu!

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Dent

No! You?! A show off??? I can't even begin to believe it!!!

Well no, not in a real dojo of course, where people are likely to hand my rear-end to me for such stunts...

[tmd]

I use both but favour the Karate version unless I'm getting tired in which case every technique looks ugly

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!



I had a hard time with making the adjustment during MT training. Personally, I think both have their uses. The Kyokushin version is for tactical striking, while the MT one is a good baseball-swing thumper. Great for arm kicking in particular.

Osu!

OSU DENT!! did you get one of those t.v style makeovers for the avatar?

[hasbeen]

i think the thing to remember about m.t is the punching and elbow strikes to he head, that`s why imo they are a little less "flash" with their kicks...it is more important to them to keep their balance at all times and keep their eyes on their opponent.

they also use their knees more..perhaps it is easier to turn a straight leg mawashi into a knee technique by bending the knee if the opponent closes you down, rather than the other way round?...just my thoughts.

[powerof0ne]

depends on the camp/gym of muay thai you're training under. I trained privately with Master Toddy and he does and teaches some "flashy" kicks but they're modified to work for muay thai. A good thaiboxer turns their hip over when they kick instead of relying on just swinging the kick like a baseball bat all the time. Their is a "crocodile tail whip kick" also known as whip kick or CHORAKE FAD HANG which is very similar to the "Brazilian kick". You also have the side thrust kick/tiip khang and cut kicks/dtad.
Taekwondo has had a strong presence in Thailand longer than most non-Thai generally realize so there is a mix between TKD and Muay Thai by some Arjarn/master instructors like Master Sken and Master Toddy.
Trust me, Muay Thai is more than just the front push kick/tiip and the basic roundhouse/dtae.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

depends on the camp/gym of muay thai you're training under. I trained privately with Master Toddy and he does and teaches some "flashy" kicks but they're modified to work for muay thai. A good thaiboxer turns their hip over when they kick instead of relying on just swinging the kick like a baseball bat all the time. Their is a "crocodile tail whip kick" also known as whip kick or CHORAKE FAD HANG which is very similar to the "Brazilian kick". You also have the side thrust kick/tiip khang and cut kicks/dtad.
Taekwondo has had a strong presence in Thailand longer than most non-Thai generally realize so there is a mix between TKD and Muay Thai by some Arjarn/master instructors like Master Sken and Master Toddy.
Trust me, Muay Thai is more than just the front push kick/tiip and the basic roundhouse/dtae.

OSU POWEROFONE!!... i`m sure what you say is true however, my wife is thai and like all thai`s she has an average knowledge of m.t .........the first time she saw ushiro mawashi and the "roll" kick...her first reaction was,"would you teach me to do that!"

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by hasbeen

OSU DENT!! did you get one of those t.v style makeovers for the avatar?

Even better! I turned back the clock!

I found that one while looking for photo's for the contest (Which I hope more will enter! Hint Hint! ), and had to post it.

Osu!

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by hasbeen

i think the thing to remember about m.t is the punching and elbow strikes to he head, that`s why imo they are a little less "flash" with their kicks...it is more important to them to keep their balance at all times and keep their eyes on their opponent.

they also use their knees more..perhaps it is easier to turn a straight leg mawashi into a knee technique by bending the knee if the opponent closes you down, rather than the other way round?...just my thoughts.

Giving it some thought, and I can see the what you're saying about the punch, particularly with regard to distancing on headshots.

Let's add to that the desire not to have your leg caught. I caught a beautiful shin right on that weak bit just above the back of the knee, after getting caught kicking weakly. Whipped that supporting leg right out!

Osu!

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!



Even better! I turned back the clock!

I found that one while looking for photo's for the contest (Which I hope more will enter! Hint Hint! ), and had to post it.

Osu!

sorry dent, in a fit of depression after my injury i destroyed all of the photos of myself...on reflection a stupid thing to do, i had a nice photo of me landing a ushiro geri which i might of entered.

[Dobbersky]

I am surprised there are differences but I suppose Kyokushin coming from Shotokan/Goju Ryu Roots it looks at the kick more technically than in Muay Thai.

I was a Muay Thai practitioner with Master Sken, then I found Ashihara, It virtually identical regards to the punches kicks etc although I try to use a Kyokushin/Wado style Mawashi Geri bringing my knee up then twisting it around as opposed to lifting it from the side although when I'm tired I do revert back to the MT round kick.

I know Muay Thai and Kyokushin has a long and exciting history between each other with many tournaments with fighters from both styles fighting to win.

I tend to see Ashihara/Enshin as a hybrid of the 2. Taking the best of both, mixing it with Judo/Aikido and there you go.

What do you think?

Sorry to hijack the thread but I thought it was relevant to the original question

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Dobbersky

(...) I try to use a Kyokushin/Wado style Mawashi Geri bringing my knee up then twisting it around as opposed to lifting it from the side although when I'm tired I do revert back to the MT round kick.

Are you saying there is a difference between Kyokushin and Ashihara chudan mawashi geri? I've never thought about that, I simply assumed that the basic techniques where the same, except for some things simplified in Ashihara.

Originally Posted by Dobbersky

I tend to see Ashihara/Enshin as a hybrid of the 2. Taking the best of both, mixing it with Judo/Aikido and there you go.

Ashihara was founded on Kyokushin principles, but has implemented (and is still implementing) the best parts from other martial arts as well as Kancho Ashihara's own ideas in an attempt to create the most realistic and effective fighting karate. Enshin is of course an Ashihara off-shoot, so it's the same story, only they put even more emphasis on throws and shooting. I have never really considered Aikido or MT techniques in Ashihara, though, would you give some examples?

Osu!