Mae geri/Mae Ke Age in kumite

[niceguy]

Hi guys,
I watched a tourny last Sunday and to my surprise only a few fighters used any front kick technique! The week before our sensei made us do lots of combos including front kicks, however come Sunday most people did lots of Mawashi(different variations) but one Mae geri and no Mae Ke Age(Have it all on tape!). In training I find these kicks effective in keeping guys at a distance and a straight hit to the floating ribs alway make you think twice about rushing in.
Can anyone tell me why these kicks seem to be the least used kicks in kumite?

[Shokei Marcsui]

Mae Keage is a stretching kick. I'm not sure about the abscence of Mae Geri in tournament competition, but perhaps it has to do with distance. I haven't seen to many videos of a wazari or ippon resulting from a mae geri. The only one that comes to mind is a clip of Midori that was on youtube.

[Bloke]

I think Mae Geri is a great technique - I dont use it to keep people at distance - I try and hurt with it - a short sharp kick.

[Shokei Marcsui]

Mae Geri, and Yoko Geri are two kicks that I would like to use more often.

[Nix]

Same here. We practice a whole lot with mae geri and also with mae keage geri. However, I never use mae geri in kumite, and I think it is fear of breaking my toes. I've sprained them before, and after that I've not used it. I do, however, use several variations of mae keage geri. It's a good technique simply because it is rarely used, so you may catch a fighter unaware.

[orisha66]

Mae geri is really good kick to close distance and start into combos.
just think of pinan sosn yon

[Satori]

Mae geri is fantastic! As you said niceguy, it is very effective if someone likes to keep charging in with punches, leaving their stomach, ribs or solar plexus exposed. If you're really lucky, flexible and proficient with it, you can even commit to a few jodan mae geri's for a surprise knockout.

Mae keage I can't picture using in a fight. The reason is that because the foot travels in an arc, it's closer to your opponent at chudan height than at jodan. So unless your opponent almost instantly closes the gap between when your foot is at chudan and jodan, you won't catch the head. However, throwing a mae keage off centre allows you to drop an axe kick, or be otherwise creative, since your foot has some serious altitude.

Kekomi mae geri can definately be a KO techinique. Just as punches to the midsection wear a fighter down, so too can kicks. Just think of a mae geri as a stronger punch that can also be delivered with a skip up increasing its velocity. Very powerful.

I've also sprained my toes from the kick, which admittedly put me off from it for a while. The fear was both physical, since the toes took a long time to fully heal, and psychological. In this period I just wished I could still do the kick as I constantly saw perfect opportunities to use it, but I had a psychological barrier. My solution was to turn the mae geri into a yoko geri! Chamber it the same way you would a mae geri, but as you extend the leg also rotate the hips. The kick is no slower since the movement is the same, but with additional rotation of the hips (which happens simultaneously). This rotation also reminds you to put your hip into the kick, which you can sometimes forget to do if you're new or poorly trained.

After a while, I started to work mae geri back into my repetoire. I began to realise the reason I hurt my toes was that my opponent was able to bring his forarm down onto them. When I kicked with sufficient speed, in appropriate range and with some sort of a distraction, the kick either lands or is deflected but never blocked onto the toes.

[smoothsake]

Interesting point on mae geri... I realize now in Muay Thai they only use mae geri in a pushing type motion whereas in Kyokushin we mostly throw mae geri as a snap from the knee. Anyone else notice this big difference? Have the Thais realized that too many toes get injured if it is thrown with a knee snap?

[Setsuna162]

In my oppinion, yoko geri is much better than mae geri in terms of power and range and it is easier to hit your opponent with this kick. Actually, I use a lot of migi yoko geri in sparring (I'm into kickboxing now but I used to be a Karateka).

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Satori

Mae keage I can't picture using in a fight. The reason is that because the foot travels in an arc, it's closer to your opponent at chudan height than at jodan. So unless your opponent almost instantly closes the gap between when your foot is at chudan and jodan, you won't catch the head.

The key is to fire off the mae keage geri from a long distane, and then suddenly move forward to a medium distance.That way, the kick will be closer to the opponent in jodan height, than in chudan. You can also try to fire the kick in from the outside (or inside). The opponent will be expecting a mawashi geri, and with practice you can get the kick over their block before impact. This can be either traditionally with your heel down on their shoulder, or with the ball of your foot to the opponents head. The latter will likely not be a very forceful kick, but annoying nonetheless.

I've also found yoko geri to be quite effective, especially if you manage to deliver the kick to his liver. Painful indeed.

[Bloke]

I have tried to get used to using Mae Geri from a range of distances and I think the reason people hurt their toes is that they donet get the knee up fist so the foot travels along an almost horizontal plane between the opponents elbows/arms. Most people I see tend to bring the kick up off the back foot and not raise the knee so the foot traveks upwards about 45 degrees coming under the elbows.

[Spirit]

Mae geri is often taught and used as a snap kick rather than a thrust kick.
They end up being two different kicks.
Personally never teach snap kicks nor except them in kata either!

The use of the knee, hip rotation, and supporting ball of foot makes the difference in the kicks.
You also gain 6" to 12" depending on your height and ability to thrust and use your body. More to this type of kick than stated ....

Sadly many do not use do to feeling it is a weak kick {NOT} or do to injury to the toes or perhaps instep got nailed by an elbow... What ever the reason, sad that it is not use more great kick and effective tool both defensive as well offensive.

[seienchin]

I agree JapMan - this kick is often undervalued. People become very obsessed with mawashi's and ushiro mawashis. A good tactic is to throw lots of the various mawashi types of kicks to get your opponent thinking about lateral guard, and then in goes the mae geri - straight through.

It is great off the front foot, with a "shudder" - a small jump/slide forwards on the grounded foot, giving extra penetration. You an also dummy a few times off the front, and deliver off the back - it adds a whole extra range of opportunities.

[Kudoist]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

Interesting point on mae geri... I realize now in Muay Thai they only use mae geri in a pushing type motion whereas in Kyokushin we mostly throw mae geri as a snap from the knee. Anyone else notice this big difference? Have the Thais realized that too many toes get injured if it is thrown with a knee snap?

No, its just that you can get a lot more power by thrusting your hips forward. Thats how you can hurt people with a mae geri.
It also gives you more stopping power against someone trying to rush in on you, and is more effective at offsetting your opponents balance.

Controlling distance is of greater importance in MT, and the push kick is one of the most effective tools for that purpose.

[Uchi Deshi]

I agree with Kudoist a 100%.
Using your hips in a proper way do indeed have
an efficient effect on the thrust when throwing a Mae Geri.

If you can first raise your knee high and fast
enough to be in a good position to aim and hit the
the target, a good quick and effective hip motion will have an impact
in the end. No doubt about that.

Now I won't try to pretend that one kick is more efficent than an other.
It depends on a lot of factors which can obviously be all listed in this forum.
I would just say that the more kicks or combinations you master and feel
really at ease with during fights, the better it will be for you.
Fighting strategies do often differ among fighters and that's what
makes the beauty of the art.

One good way, besides kumite, to find out how effective
your kicks and thrust are is through Tameshiwari. That's what a bunch of my
friends and I do.
If for exemple, an average adult person has
problems breaking only two 3/4" boards with a Mae Geri,
that means that their technic needs to be improved.
The same rule applies to all types of kicks and punches.

I personally won't train to throw the most kicks randomly at the speed of light.
That's a waste of energy. Instead, while using different kicks combinations,
I'll rather concentrate on trying to hit the target effectiveley using the proper move at the right time.

That's the basic key.

Cough... Cough... Cough... Man... I sure didn't see it coming... Cough... Cough... That sure was a good one...

OSU!

[Thiago Rosa Lacerda]

In Brasil Mae geri and Mae ke age are used, to close distance and hurts the adversaries. This is a great technique. With these techniques Sensei Ewerton Teixeira can win all fights.

[niceguy]

Oh yea, I saw sensei Teixeira using it.Thanks to youtube. I went to fight club on Sunday and got some advice from some of the shodans there and they all gave roughly the same advice.
The key to front kicking is knee up and snap out. I then spent the next half hour doing this. It is a lovely kick when done right, sore instep from elbow blocks though.
Ous!

[orisha66]

Originally Posted by jap man

Sadly many do not use do to feeling it is a weak kick {NOT} or do to injury to the toes or perhaps instep got nailed by an elbow... What ever the reason, sad that it is not use more great kick and effective tool both defensive as well offensive.

I have the old marks on my insteps from those elbows...dont feel the elbows to much anymore.

[hasbeen]

i agree with bloke,it`s a great technique,one of the easier kicks to get right,so if the majority of people are not using it now,i would!!

[chen3141]

I like using mae geri as a stepping point for other kicks. As you snap the knee up you can either drive your toes into them through this kick, or with a quick twist you can change it to a weaker but still effective jodan ura/ regular mawashi or even a yoko. Although I admit its a lot weaker than from the ground, it gives that sense of surprise.

I find that ushiro/oshiro geri is almost never thrown. However impractical it may be, I feel it generates more power than yoko geri.