Kids Full Contact Or Semi?

[Deaken]

I think that kids until the age of 13 should be semi contact with equipment. At 14 they should be able to start semi full contact, which is to say full contact knockdown with equipment (headgear, shinpads, groin cup and hand pads).

This is not for everyone which is why it's kyokushinkai, but how are we going to prepare those that do want to do this to be able to compete in knowckdown at 18 without protection if they never did anything similar before?

[brian]

I have a problem with kids under the age of 12 competing full contact. I have a friend who is also a Martial Arts teacher, and he host an In House tournament every year. His kids compete with gloves, helmets, foot pads, chest protectors, & mouth guards, and still he tells me that this last year he had a 10 year old girl completely knock out an 11 year old boy. Something about watching 10 and 11 year olds getting knocked out cold just fells wrong, not to mention if kids are getting knocked out that early wouldn't they have a much better chance of brain damage as they got older.

[Brad]

i also think it is a good start semi contact'd but later on in life they can go full contact'd any way if they like.

[cecil667]

I think the kids should go full contact...show off all the versatility and stuff...
Plus, Kyokushin is a F U L L C O N T A C T style of karate...therefore ushiro mawashi should be aloud.

[cecil667]

Originally Posted by LoQi

On second thought, 10 years of age might be a bit young to fight full-contact. As I said, they need to be experienced fighters, and I doubt there are any experienced fighters that is 10 years old.

Back in MAH day, you turned junior at age 13. Once a year, there was (and still is) a tournament that used "moderate knock-down" rules. It is basically what we call semi-contact rules (which I have learned is different from what you perceive as semi-contact), except vest and helmet are mandatory. The rules allows full contact to the torso, and moderated contact to the head (no punches and no front kicks, though), and no techniques below the belt save for sweeps - however it was very normal to apply full force to jodan mawashi geri, since very few youngsters has the nescesarry power to KO somebody with a high kick, especially when wearing a helmet.

All in all, this tournament was the absolute coolest event of the year for us young 'uns, and it also allows for a smooth transition between light-contact and semi-contact.

actually, i have a 10 year old friend with a black belt in kyokushin.

[cecil667]

Lots of 10 year olds etc go in tournys without protection
in the official canadian kyokushinkai-kan karate organization, we go in tournys at any belt, any age.

[Nix]

Originally Posted by cecil667

actually, i have a 10 year old friend with a black belt in kyokushin.

As I said in my post, I hardly think there are any experienced fighters at age 10. In the old days, our dojo admitted students from 6 years and up, but this was raised to 8 years because few 6 year olds have the nescesarry concentration to practice karate (there are other solutions, which I will not discuss here). So where I come from a 10 year old has maximum 2 years experience, which means they are still merely beginners. I don't know how it is in other places, but where I practice a student may not go to shodan graduation before 2½ years after he turns into a senior student at age 15. At this point he/she will have at least 8 years of experience, but more is far from uncommon (again, I refrain from explaining the system in detail). Without trying to disrespect anyone, I personally feel that 10 years of age is way to early to become shodan, but that is not the subject here either.

Originally Posted by cecil667

Lots of 10 year olds etc go in tournys without protection
in the official canadian kyokushinkai-kan karate organization, we go in tournys at any belt, any age.

Sounds reckless. Protection is vital to -any- tournament, but not least child/junior tournaments. Why is this? Because if parents gets the impression that their children are competing under dangerous conditions, they will pull their children out of the tournament and the dojo. The tournament, the dojo and karate itself will then gain a bad reputation, and this we do not want. Again, I would like to draw a paralell to Denmark, where karate is starting to be known as a safe and healthy sport, with very few serious injuries. This has been hard work, seeing as it might seem brutal to people who are ignorant. After all, it is quite simply people bashing at eachothers.

Safety does not only mean that the wear good protection, but also other factors such as
a) the fighters fight are fighting under rules that fits their own abilities. If they are fighting semi or full contact, they need to know what they are doing in order to control their techniques.
b) the fighters are mature and disciplined enough to handle the set conditions. Semi or full contact are more of a strain both physically and mentally to the fighter. Older, more mature fighters can handle this beter than young and inexperienced.

The tournament host sets the rules and conditions that needs to be met. It is the instructors responsibility to make sure that the individual student is ready to meet those requirements. I do feel that juniors should be allowed to have a taste of semi/full contact, but it is vital that they are up for the challenge. If they are not, they might not only ruin the tournament for themselves, but also to others.

[nikimester]

Hi there,
THere is no punch to the head in Kyokushin!!! ANd children cannot attend full contact, especially without body protector, there body is not strong enough and they all would end up finishing karate. The only punch that go to the head is from the side and should not reach the head, just get a point to the correctly done technique. I dont think any of the coaches would like to go to court because children doing fights in the dojo or tournament get bruises everywhere on the body. So what I would suggest is that everybody should start fighting competitions with clicker, to learn how to fight, then you can attend full contact tournaments.
I wish you all a very successful year with lots of trainings!!!!

[tmd]

Originally Posted by cecil667

I think the kids should go full contact...show off all the versatility and stuff...
Plus, Kyokushin is a F U L L C O N T A C T style of karate...therefore ushiro mawashi should be aloud.

My point to the comments I have added to this thread is I see a distinct lack of versatility in knockdown, plenty of stamina, aggression and fighting spirit but a lack of versatility, bit to much punch, punch, kick. Punch, punch, kick. I think if you lead a path through semi contact where speed and agility are the keys to success you end up with knockdown fighters with a much greater range of attacks.

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by cecil667

Plus, Kyokushin is a F U L L C O N T A C T style of karate...therefore ushiro mawashi should be aloud.

I realize that as a 5th kyu you have all the knowledge and experience of Kyokushin, but just a bit more knowledge to take home with you today,
Kyokushin is Knockdown not full contact!!!

Full contact has come to represent {as a generalized term} any type of fighting that does not represent point fighting. But we (Kyokushin) are not just any type of style or generalized as any other styles...
But Kyokushin is not (true Kyokushin fighting not the modified versions that pooped up after Sosai's passing) Full Contact!

Here is a simple way to resolve this issue...
Learn the style 100% through and train for at least 20 year but better if 30 years, as well run a dojo or 2. Then you can make a comments of how tourney's, dojo, or other issues that pertain to the students or the style should be!!!!

You now it gets a bit overwhelming to read these post of people that really have no true experience other than repeating what has been said by others in the dojo and not fulling grasping it, or repeating what they over hear others say and not fully understanding or completely hearing the whole conversation.

I'm not saying that one should not state their peace, but their is a limit to what one should say when it is evident that one does not "YET" have the experience to make said comment(s)

[brian]

Originally Posted by tmd

My point to the comments I have added to this thread is I see a distinct lack of versatility in knockdown, plenty of stamina, aggression and fighting spirit but a lack of versatility, bit to much punch, punch, kick. Punch, punch, kick. I think if you lead a path through semi contact where speed and agility are the keys to success you end up with knockdown fighters with a much greater range of attacks.

I completely agree!

[seienchin]

I agree too - and I think this is why Australia has never been able to compete well against Britain, who have a very well developed non-contact and semi-contact tournament program for their junior fighters. I remember when a couple of them visited Australia in the 80s- our guys couldn't believe how fast they were. What I saw was non-contact fighters who had learned to move with speed and agility, and then harnessed the might of full-contact. It is much harder to do the other way around!

[effectz]

imho it should start controlled with padded gloves and shin guards for kids.
as they mature in the art and show control, you begin to move them into fighting full contact. watching children who do not know how to fight, you just see alot of jamming and poor techniques. they will hit each other incorrectly and they are prone to injuries that could influence them away from the art itself.

[strongman1]

Osu Shihan mark

do the children do ibuki in class or do you test ibuki in class
do you do Tameshiwari in class or do you just miss the bricks

I come from the school of hard knocks

Osu Osu

[tmd]

Originally Posted by effectz

imho it should start controlled with padded gloves and shin guards for kids.
as they mature in the art and show control, you begin to move them into fighting full contact. watching children who do not know how to fight, you just see alot of jamming and poor techniques. they will hit each other incorrectly and they are prone to injuries that could influence them away from the art itself.

Could not agree more - first should come ability then contact.

[b3n]

Originally Posted by tmd

My point to the comments I have added to this thread is I see a distinct lack of versatility in knockdown, plenty of stamina, aggression and fighting spirit but a lack of versatility, bit to much punch, punch, kick. Punch, punch, kick. I think if you lead a path through semi contact where speed and agility are the keys to success you end up with knockdown fighters with a much greater range of attacks.

I dont understand, how can you knock someone down with semi contact strikes?

Originally Posted by Spirit

I realize that as a 5th kyu you have all the knowledge and experience of Kyokushin, but just a bit more knowledge to take home with you today,
Kyokushin is Knockdown not full contact!!!

why do people keep saying that kyokushin is not full contact? you are allowed to punch and kick with maximum force (contact) yes? therefor making it full contact...

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by b3n

I dont understand, how can you knock someone down with semi contact strikes?



why do people keep saying that kyokushin is not full contact? you are allowed to punch and kick with maximum force (contact) yes? therefor making it full contact...

osu b3n! there is a subtle difference........in "full contact" you are allowed to punch to the face with gloves......in knockdown, normally you are not.

"full contact" is terminology for a different type of fighting (full contact to the body+face)..........................like shall we say kickboxing..... rather than the amount of force delivered by a punch or kick.

i hope this helps.......

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu!

I'm just guessing here that some of the posters on this topic are 1) Not fighters, and 2) Not parents.

Full contact, Knockdown etc or whatever you call it presents an element of danger for the young that I think is unacceptable. Surely the long term welfare of the child over-rides the need for trophies? I understand there is risk in any activity, but this is not risk, it is intent - to damage another child to the point of concussion. Not good.

As a parent, I would not let my own children enter such a tournament, so I would be hypocritical teaching it to other peoples children or refereeing them under those rules.

Once people are over 18 and able to protect themselves though - game on!

Gary

[tmd]

Originally Posted by b3n

I dont understand, how can you knock someone down with semi contact strikes?


why do people keep saying that kyokushin is not full contact? you are allowed to punch and kick with maximum force (contact) yes? therefor making it full contact...

With semi contact fighting you learn speed, agility, footwork and technique - when you step up to knockdown you add strength to the movement and it becomes a full power technique - I was not implying that you still fight like a semi contact fighter in a knockdown tournament

I agree with you on the 'full contact thing - it's just a technicality some people like to throw in just coz we don't bash people on the nose (it's illegal) , we also don't wear gloves but hey each to their own.