Kids Full Contact Or Semi?

[hasbeen]

osu tmd!

just my take on this, i feel that if a 13 year old boy is going to spar/fight k.d his parents should be consulted before this happens....13 imo is just too young for this type of fighting....bad enough a "one off" that gets out of hand but a line up....no.

i think you have gone about this the right way and have shown the instructors and your son what a caring responsible parent you are..lucky boy

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

osu tmd!

just my take on this, i feel that if a 13 year old boy is going to spar/fight k.d his parents should be consulted before this happens....13 imo is just too young for this type of fighting....bad enough a "one off" that gets out of hand but a line up....no.

i think you have gone about this the right way and have shown the instructors and your son what a caring responsible parent you are..lucky boy

The really sad thing is that not all parents have what it takes to make the right decisions for their kids. Some parents (perhaps who come from a very violent background of their own) would not even think about the potential brain damage from being repeatedly kicked in the head.

There are some things that parents should NOT have autonomy to decide. For example, we no longer allow parents to choose whether or not their children wear seatbelts. It is just the law, because a small number of the most vulnerable children were being exposed to the poor decision-making of negligent parents. No parent should be able to "choose in" to a harmful activity for their children, and I am firmly of the view that KD is a potentially harmful activity - for adults and for children. I respect that adults can make that choice for themselves. I don't think anyone can make it for a child.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by seienchin

The really sad thing is that not all parents have what it takes to make the right decisions for their kids. Some parents (perhaps who come from a very violent background of their own) would not even think about the potential brain damage from being repeatedly kicked in the head.

There are some things that parents should NOT have autonomy to decide. For example, we no longer allow parents to choose whether or not their children wear seatbelts. It is just the law, because a small number of the most vulnerable children were being exposed to the poor decision-making of negligent parents. No parent should be able to "choose in" to a harmful activity for their children, and I am firmly of the view that KD is a potentially harmful activity - for adults and for children. I respect that adults can make that choice for themselves. I don't think anyone can make it for a child.

I think that for many of the parents, it's less about willful, damaging behaviour, and more about ignorance. If we, as informed adults, are still arguing the point, can we really be surprised by the decisions made by someone whose total martial knowledge probably comes from MA movies...?

Osu!

[tmd]

It's a fair point Dent but there is always the 'We'll I'm OK/ it was good enough in my day' argument that comes more from those that have done boxing or karate. As I said in my earlier post - I understood (once I'd calmed down) what had gone on in this insistent and felt comfortable dealing with it, how many kids have come and gone because they went home and their parents were disturbed by the bruises enough to never let them go again but also not willing to discuss it with someone they perceive as at the very least partially responsible.

Should kids do full or semi contact? I think we have to examine what is a kid, I feel very unhappy about the under 12's doing it and don't think it teaches them the right meaning of martial arts, I'm uneasy about but more excepting of the 13-16's doing it at a high grade in order to help them begin to test themselves and understand what it is they are learning - but this must be put as you don't have too, it will be hard but... Not it is expect as you want to be Kyokushin that you do. 16-18 OK from about blue belt (2 years training) upward against similarly sized opponents and not adults. The reason for not being comfortable about the idea of full contact is not just the potential on the day issues, for me it is more to do with the levels of conditioning required to compete effectively at knockdown which could hinder proper growth both physically and mentally. Look at any of the threads about such things as shin conditioning etc and ask yourself, how much long term damage could this cause to a 12 year olds legs?


Maybe this should be in a new thread or one on student retention but I think it's work mentioning here too:

I was having a chat with a customer of mine the other day and he was telling me that he had taken his 6 year old along to a karate club, he'd really enjoyed it and said the instructor was good etc but his daughter was scared off by all the 'shouting'. Again something we has karateka would be blissfully unaware off but the mixed class just cost the guy two potential new students.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by tmd

It's a fair point Dent but there is always the 'We'll I'm OK/ it was good enough in my day' argument that comes more from those that have done boxing or karate.

Then we have two options:
1) Try and change the Dojo from within, or,
2) Vote with your feet.

Osu!

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

YouTube - Shindokai karate - Shindokai-kan...

kids fighting full contact

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu!

"It's all good fun until somebody loses an eye"

I wouldn't want my kids doing that, plenty of time to get strong and then enter as an adult - fully aware of the risks.

Each to their own and all that.

Gary

[jcc]

Osu!

Is this match taking place in Russia? Can´t see this happening around here (Europe) or in the US. I really think letting anyone do knockdown too early or too young is counter-productive and leads either to bad habits (at best!) or unnecessary injuries. Just don´t see what all the rush is about.

Osu!

[tmd]

Maybe a new thread this but I heard something interesting yesturday......

Mum: My boy is a child prodigy he can read at just 2 years old!

Grandmother: Everyone can read by the time they're 8 years old.

When I first heard this I thought it was a bitter thing for the grandmother to say but there is an element here for us to consider in our sport (not the martial arts side, the sport).

Is a kid who can do full contact at say 13 any more likely to be a world champ come 21 than someone who starts off in semi contact and only progress to full contact at 16 or even 18?

How long does it take to build competition fitness, 3 months?, a year?

How many tournaments before you feel comfortable in your abilities 2?, 10?

How much conditioning can you do without risking permanent dis-figuration before adulthood? Any?

My answer....

All the above can be achieved in around 2 years so why start at 8, 9, 10,11, 12, 13,14 or 15? If you start with Cadet level tourneys, fighting similar opponents at say 16 you will be ready for adult knockdown come your 18th Birthday by your 21st you would have enough conditioning, training and experience to fight for a World Tittle.

A Cat for the Pigeons, is it that Knockdown is all the instructors know how to teach?

[jcc]

Originally Posted by tmd;81271A

Cat for the Pigeons, is it that Knockdown is all the instructors know how to teach?

Osu!

A good point there tmd! I myself get a bit frustrated when all we do is knockdown practice. I know that knockdown kumite is excellent for stamina and conditioning but the rules are very restrictive, eg no grabbing or grappling, which I sometimes find difficult to follow, being slower, but bigger than most of the others in the dojo where I train! And I won´t even mention the dreaded face-punch thing!

[Dent]

Osu!

I think this KD only gig is as much my fault as it is any of those of us who enjoy watching/ spectating/ officiating/ participating in said tourneys.

I also think that the only way to ensure a broad enough martial approach to Karate is to have a comprehensive syllabus posted in the Dojo for all to see. (And Instructors should have lesson plans based on full macro-cycles. But I suspect that is another thread... )

Osu!

[jcc]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

I think this KD only gig is as much my fault as it is any of those of us who enjoy watching/ spectating/ officiating/ participating in said tourneys.

Osu!

Osu!

And the amount of kudos your dojo gets by producing champion! Which is fine, unless the broader picture is lost somewhere along the line. It also may be my imagination, but there seem to be far more tourneys these days, or is that just better comunication? So we can blame the net then...

[Bloke]

Jcc - I think you are right - there are more tournaments these days.

[Dent]

Osu!

Yes, there are far more tournaments, and that equals opportunity if approached correctly.

1) I think that tournaments should be identified well in advance, and
2) Tournament training should be in addition to regular training, not a replacement for it.

Osu!

[andy83]

Full Contact, of course!

[Bloke]

Andy83 do you mean for children it should be full contact?