Kids Full Contact Or Semi?

[sublimo]

KIDS 8-14 years
Dear, after the kids-tournament I have discussion with some coaches.
They did t agree the kids fought full power. They prefer that the kids kicked semi contact. Semi to the head and semi gedan and chudan mawashi geri.

This, to protect the kids from a KO.

Our rules are all techniques allowed as in an adult competition,

except:
mae geri s, yoko geri, ushiro geri (directly to the head), kakato geri´s all directly to the head. Mawashi geri, ushiro mawashi geri, hiza geri are allowed to the head.
They all wear helmets, gloves, mouth-guard and shin pads.

Here is the question: Full power mawashi/ushiro mawashi to the heads allowed or not allowed for kids in a full contact tournament?
(10-14 years)

[Nix]

Full contact is full contact. It depends on their experience, though. If they know what they're doing, then by all means, let them knock themselves out (hehe). They -are- wearing a helmet, no? Otherwise semi-contact kicks to the head will serve the same purpose. Perhaps you should discuss it with the fighters.

It sounds odd to me that they use gloves, however. Do you allow punches to the head?

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by LoQi

It sounds odd to me that they use gloves, however. Do you allow punches to the head?

I ve never saw kyokushin kids tournaments were they don t wear gloves. (8-14 years) even (15- 17 years)

I don t mean boxing gloves but thin gloves like from mma or karategloves.
Punches to the head ar not allowed off course. it is pure classic kyokushin rules.

[seienchin]

I don't think anyone who is not legally an adult should fight full contact. It is a high risk sport, and the person putting their body on the line must be the one to do it, with a mature understanding of the possible consequences.

Why put growing bodies, stretchy mobile necks, growing brains at risk? How does it benefit anyone. And in fact, non-contact for a few years builds fighters with broader repertoire.

Garry O'Neill, one of the great fighters to come out of Australia, fought non-contact originally, until he came to Kyokushin at around the age of 16. His speed and footwork were the legacy that he brought with him.

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by kyokushin4life

Osu.sublimo and welcome to K4L community!

?

thanks!

[seienchin]

Osu _ Sublimo - your original post for some reasno was in the intro thread section. I have moved it to a more appropriate space.

I think K4L responded because it was in the welcome thread, without really realising it was you! But you are welcome, and we do hope you enjoy your time here!

[Spirit]

First off Kyokushin is not full contact its knock down!!!

Kids need to learn and putting them into a K/D or contact situation (tourney, not about in a controlled class format which is different and needed) can cause bad habits do to the desperate need to hit takes over logic thinking.

As a student who grew up in Kyokushin I'll back the no contact rule for the young under 12, and the controlled contact (semi-contact is just plain B/S for insurance needs) for 12 to 15.
Though I would push strong techniques is class sparring and allow those who can handle it to make good strong contact to target areas i.e. body, and controlled techniques i.e. leg kicks, head strikes etc ... just that, controlled to learned tehnique.

This all doesn't really take the tourney thing into play, so kids rules under 15 use modifier WKA or AAU rules. These rules are very well written and produce good fighting skills and techniques. The modifications I would make or use is harder contact in the old teen divisions, leg check (in place of gedan mawashi), elbows to the body, and things like.

[Lucy]

I think that the tournaments run for kids in Belgium and Holland are a great start to what will become full knockdown once they reach 18 and i think there should be more of them. Ive noticed the cadets that fought from England in these tournaments, now and previous students, are on a different level once they reach seniors now which is fantastic. They have the advantage from these tournaments of some good experience which has given them much needed confidence. We never had tournaments like these when i was under 18 and it was a real shock physically and mentally when you go from the non contact straight into knockdown! It gives them a taste of whats to come once they are old enough for knockdown without the danger of serious injury. Keep doing what your doing i think.

As for what age you should fight knockdown rules without protection i will always say that it should be over 18's. Under 18's should be protection and semi contact. Saying that in England the cadets 16+ fight kyokushin rules with just shin insteps and full contact. I don't personally agree with it, but they seem to cope well enough.

[andy83]

Kyokushin= full contact.
For a full contact fighter (if a junior or a senior) is too difficult to control that kind of kicks, expecially jodan ushiro mawashi geri.
According to me in a tournament there should not be of these rules.
The best solution for kids is to wear helmet.
When i was 16, I've fought in European Juniores Kyokushin Champonship, in Ungary, and there were these rules, jodan ushiro mawashi geri and oroshi kakato geri weren't permissed while jodan mawashi geri might to be controlled.

[Nix]

On second thought, 10 years of age might be a bit young to fight full-contact. As I said, they need to be experienced fighters, and I doubt there are any experienced fighters that is 10 years old.

Back in MAH day, you turned junior at age 13. Once a year, there was (and still is) a tournament that used "moderate knock-down" rules. It is basically what we call semi-contact rules (which I have learned is different from what you perceive as semi-contact), except vest and helmet are mandatory. The rules allows full contact to the torso, and moderated contact to the head (no punches and no front kicks, though), and no techniques below the belt save for sweeps - however it was very normal to apply full force to jodan mawashi geri, since very few youngsters has the nescesarry power to KO somebody with a high kick, especially when wearing a helmet.

All in all, this tournament was the absolute coolest event of the year for us young 'uns, and it also allows for a smooth transition between light-contact and semi-contact.

[sublimo]

There is someting I forgot to say:
If they kicked jodan mawashi and it hits the head lightly it is a wazari.The head has to shake a bit. Not just touch it. Two wazari s ippon off course.

[goldberg2310]

osu.

every country seems to me has it own rules for kids and juniors. knockdown for kids is to dangerous and in some country not legalized...

within the wko there are junior rules 16-18 years. shin pads, head protection. to the legs and body same rules like adults. to the head are the following techinques are allowed: mawashi geri, kake geri, jodan haisoku geri. all techniques have to be controlled. NO knockdown. all other kicks to the head are comitted as a foul! if there is a jodan mawashi fi, not blocked low impact, a waza ari will be given.

[El Cid]

OSU.. You must train your children in the Art and mentality of BUDO Karate, that is the spirit of Kyokushin. Safety yes, but full contact. When our children play football or Hockey, they don't hit half way, they hit, and they try to hit as hard as they can. The only difference between children and us, is protection. They need it, and should have it. Period. As they grow, they tolerate more and then wear less. My boy is 9 years old, and is a Full Contact Fighter. By the way he also boxes at this age, and it's full contact. And let me tell you it looks crazy in the ring when you see two little one duking it out with leather gloves and just a head gear. Amazing. So don't be afraid of letting them fight. Just be sure they are protected, and most importantly; ready to fight. OSU

[sublimo]

In Belgium and most parts off Holland for -16 years rules are:
Technique forbidden:
-Straight kicks directly to the head.
-No grabbing, no face punching
Techniques allowed:
The rest (same as adults kyokushin competition)
Wazari: knock down and back in kamae in 3sec.
kick mawashi or ushiro mawashi geri to the head.(semi contact is already wazari)
Ippon: Not able to get back in kamae within 3 sec.

Shinpads, karate gloves, mouthguard, helmet, and cups for the ladys and eh "ball protectors" for the guys.

We do watch the fight very carefully. If we see they get beat up hard we stop the fight or give faster wazari. when they go more than 5 times out off the tatami they received centen ichi or the other gets wazari when they are on the winning part but don t scores. (discutable)

I wonder how the kids fights in Australia and other country s.

[MrFenton]

Interesting...I am pro full contact for kids
Mouth guard, groin protector and headgear for tournaments IMO, I'm not concerned with gloves or other protection

My son has just turned 10
He has been doing Kyokushin for only a month and a half but has done Karate for over 3 years

He trains full contact but as he is training in an adult class most of them go easy (too easy IMO) on him
In fact I give him more to deal with than anyone else in the class
In class sparring he wears a mouth guard and groin protector by my instruction and MMA type grappling gloves and shin guards as a normal part of sparring

He trains with adults as he is too advanced for the kids classes but, he doesn't get the hits like he would if he were in a kids class, who I guess may be less reserved about striking one of there own unlike the adults who pull back just a bit too much sometimes

[Spirit]

OK,
Kyokushin is not full contact no matter what you think... its Knock down nothing more nothing less.

Nor is Karate Budo, Budo is not associated to any type of sport...

As for head gear etc, I'm going to say for me and my outlook its a big NO. Better to learn controlled sparring under WKA, AAU or WUKO rules with strong body contact and no pads, than slop with pads.

Pads with kids tends to give them false interpretation of how to fight and how it feels to get hit, and poor junk techniques.

[tmd]

In my opinion Kyokushin karateka both young and old should learn semi-contact, Clicker fighting first and progress to Knockdown. This was the case for me years ago in BKK, I did no knockdown training until I was a 7th Kyu and competed instead at Clicker tourys, I learned to be fast, use correct strikes and blocks (including head strikes) and over come any stage fright issues associated with competing.

Where I train now they are quite anti clicker, which I think this, is a shame especially for the kids. We just had a knockdown tournament for kids from 8 years old using guards mitts etc and the fact is the kids were aggressive and eager to fight, but I saw very few who fought in a controlled style - it was just brawling - this is why the kids prefer knockdown to clicker because in clicker you need to learn good sharp, returned techniques to score rather than just all out power.

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by tmd

In my opinion Kyokushin karateka both young and old should learn semi-contact, Clicker fighting first and progress to Knockdown. This was the case for me years ago in BKK, I did no knockdown training until I was a 7th Kyu and competed instead at Clicker tourys, I learned to be fast, use correct strikes and blocks (including head strikes) and over come any stage fright issues associated with competing.

Where I train now they are quite anti clicker, which I think this, is a shame especially for the kids. We just had a knockdown tournament for kids from 8 years old using guards mitts etc and the fact is the kids were aggressive and eager to fight, but I saw very few who fought in a controlled style - it was just brawling - this is why the kids prefer knockdown to clicker because in clicker you need to learn good sharp, returned techniques to score rather than just all out power.

You have a point. The Britisch yought are indeed technical very strong.

[Benedict]

Originally Posted by seienchin

Garry O'Neill, one of the great fighters to come out of Australia, fought non-contact originally, until he came to Kyokushin at around the age of 16. His speed and footwork were the legacy that he brought with him.

Yep you got that right. I did some sparring with Sensei O'Neill at the black belt grading in 2006 and for a bloke his size, its phenomenal that he came 4th at the World Open. My mistake was attempting a joudan mawashi geri to the head....needless to say, I ended up flat on my back as he took my ground leg out.
There wouldnt be too many guys around that size that can hold their own like he.

I think though that full contact is the way forward. Kids can start at semi contact but when you are older if you're getting touched up at training it will prepare you better for the street. You're only as tough as the hit you can take.

[mamo535]

i say to start with kids , semi-contact is better !