Does the nature of Kyokushin competition, align itself only w/ the longtime trainee?

[FutureProdigy]

I never thought about it till today, but does not the nature of kyokushin competition deem it almost void for anyone starting late in life. Let me explain my reasoning

-unless you have had the opportunity to be an uchi deschi and or trained since you were a kid then you will never get anywhere in competitions. I think of the example of hockey, a person starting to play hockey in their late 20s would never dream of going to the NHL, they’re starting would be nothing more than a hobby/past time event.
-Stemming from this, it seems that dojos perpetuate this belief by advertising martial arts to adults as a form of self betterment but also a good way to exercise (goals of older people!)

So, what place then does kyokushin have for the trainee whom has come to the martial arts late in life? Will it forever be nothing but a good workout, and hobby!?

Mental ramble, not really related to original topic (above): I’m a jock who has grown up playing hockey since I was 4, and lacrosse since 8, so I often think in these kind of terms and it quite frankly is a bit distressing to think of taking up a martial art that will be nothing more than a causal hobby (I guess that’s part and parcel of getting old, ‘c’est la vie’ huh).. no wonder people project all kinds of things unto their past, wishing they had done things differently

[helenosch]

That's just wrong. I've known a lot of people who came in late into Kyokushin for them it's always more than just a hobby or something for their fitness.

For me, I started when I was 19 (okay not that old ) but I do compete activly and hope to be on the mat for the next european championship, so definitly not a hobby anymore
I also do know for a fact, that the woman lw-winner of croatia/diamondcup/swiss open started kyokushin only in her late 20s, and if she isn't serious about it, then who is?

[hasbeen]

i see you are 23, if you are talking about youself there is nothing to stop you going all the way.

train 3-5 times a week and by the time you are 27?

get on every course/summer camp your time and money will allow....it`s all about time and application.

[Bloke]

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

I never thought about it till today, but does not the nature of kyokushin competition deem it almost void for anyone starting late in life. Let me explain my reasoning

-unless you have had the opportunity to be an uchi deschi and or trained since you were a kid then you will never get anywhere in competitions. I think of the example of hockey, a person starting to play hockey in their late 20s would never dream of going to the NHL, they’re starting would be nothing more than a hobby/past time event.

Competition is a very small part of Kyokushin. I have been training for more than 20 years but only competed for 10. I hope to continue training as long as I can so that could be another day or another 40 years - no one knows.

-Stemming from this, it seems that dojos perpetuate this belief by advertising martial arts to adults as a form of self betterment but also a good way to exercise (goals of older people!)

You think younger people dont want exercise and self betterment?

So, what place then does kyokushin have for the trainee whom has come to the martial arts late in life? Will it forever be nothing but a good workout, and hobby!?

I started at 19 and fought until I was 30 - I am 41 now and still teach and train. I can see beyond winning titles to the bigger picture.

Mental ramble, not really related to original topic (above): I’m a jock who has grown up playing hockey since I was 4, and lacrosse since 8, so I often think in these kind of terms and it quite frankly is a bit distressing to think of taking up a martial art that will be nothing more than a causal hobby (I guess that’s part and parcel of getting old, ‘c’est la vie’ huh).. no wonder people project all kinds of things unto their past, wishing they had done things differently

The issue here is that you seem to think of Kyokushin in terms of competition when its far more than that. Go to a dojo and train for a year - all aspects not just knockdown and then come back and ask these questions again. I think you'll surprise your self. And getting old? I still spar with guys half my age and twice my fitness but they soon learn that that is not enough. Age brings experience and you cant buy that.

[niceguy]

Originally Posted by Bloke

The issue here is that you seem to think of Kyokushin in terms of competition when its far more than that. Go to a dojo and train for a year - all aspects not just knockdown and then come back and ask these questions again. I think you'll surprise your self. And getting old? I still spar with guys half my age and twice my fitness but they soon learn that that is not enough. Age brings experience and you cant buy that.

Nicely put Bloke, there is more to Kyokushin than just competetions.

[vapor]

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

So, what place then does kyokushin have for the trainee whom has come to the martial arts late in life? Will it forever be nothing but a good workout, and hobby!?

I often think in these kind of terms and it quite frankly is a bit distressing to think of taking up a martial art that will be nothing more than a causal hobby

Are you aware of the philosophy of "self-fufilling prophecy"?

If that is the attitude and what you believe to be the case, it is all you will get out of it.

It is a shame, because I would venture to say that for the majority of the members here, it is more than a hobby, and we can't count too many world champions amonst us...and it doesn't change a thing.

vapor

[FutureProdigy]

Originally Posted by vapor

Are you aware of the philosophy of "self-fufilling prophecy"?

If that is the attitude and what you believe to be the case, it is all you will get out of it.

It is a shame, because I would venture to say that for the majority of the members here, it is more than a hobby, and we can't count too many world champions amonst us...and it doesn't change a thing.

vapor

I want it to be more than a hobby, but being a athlete my whole life i think in terms of what i know - i.e. the hockey example... and in that framework it just seemed to only fit the category of a hobby.

I meant no disrespect to anyone! I am verbalizing my frustrations that is all. Sorry

[Deaken]

All of Kyokushin is technically a "hobby" unless you own/operate a full time dojo and do this as your sole source of income, however for many people (especially within Kyokushin) their hobby become a way of life. I don't know of any "truly professional" Kyokushin fighters, as none of the tournaments pay anything except for the WT every 4 years. Some may get their training time subsidised and other sponsorship to help them, but it is still all amateur. They are not competing for purses like in boxing and MMA but for personal recognition and personal accomplishment. To go professional, the top fighters turn to K1 and only a handful of the 12 million Kyokushin practitioners from around the world have made that transition.

Kyokushin has many facets to it. Fighting is one often tied in with youth however as others have pointed out there are many opportunities to compete at all ages from 4-6 years to the world seniors tournament which is still a huge accomplishment to win.

In addition to fighting, there are Kata tournaments, the ability to volunteer and help with administration and running of the dojo, learning to teach, learning to coach, opening your own dojo, working to support your organization, mentoring others etc, etc, which are all avenues open to you through your training. It is what you make of it. You set your personal goals (short, medium and long term), and you make them happen with the guidance of your Shihan’s, Sensei’s and Sempai’s.

[Lucy]

If you have the potential to be a good fighter then it doesnt matter how late you start (as Helenosch gave a great example). If it's in you then go for it. Only your personal belief would stop/help you. If your determined and dedicated to your training then it will happen

[chen3141]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

i see you are 23, if you are talking about youself there is nothing to stop you going all the way.

train 3-5 times a week and by the time you are 27?

get on every course/summer camp your time and money will allow....it`s all about time and application.

What about a student on a tight budget? If you have time, but not the money, or no money but all the time or neither but still have a yearning desire, what options are available to you?

[FutureProdigy]

LOL, chen3141 I hear ya on that. I am graduating this year with my BA and a bank account that does not exist. When i was studying i also had very little free time... but i guess, c'est la vie right... one reason for my pessimism and projecting my desires onto the past.

[powerof0ne]

This applies to all martial arts, not just Kyokushin. I know many people that train in Muay Thai, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and more MMA oriented gyms that have no aspirations to ever compete. I guess you can consider it a hobby but most of these people I know train on a regular basis.
I train with some pro fighters in MMA competition but my competing days are pretty much done. I have no aspirations to try to fight in the UFC. Training in martial arts is just my way of life. If I don't train I get irritated, unhappy, etc.
Even if you train for competition and aren't doing it for a living, that would be considered a hobby, right?

[FutureProdigy]

powerofone - i see what you're saying, but i would disagree that we could formally call it a hobby, as a rep hockey player who was on the ice 6 days a week plus dry land training, i can speak from experience and say its no longer a hobby when its at that level... now i never made it to the nhl but i would not dismiss all those years of playing AAA as a mere hobby. I guess martial arts in your old age would fit a similar conceptual paradigm.

[Deaken]

Hi,

I don't understand why the word Hobby is generating a feeling of lessening your commitment or experience. It was not my intent to impart that feeling by making the reference. By definition a Hobby is "a pursuit outside one's regular occupation". I wouldn't think that my 20 years of Kyokushin experience are lessend by the fact that it has not been my primary occupation (although I am trying to change this). When I was making a reference to a hobby it was because it is a pursuit that we do not do for financial gain (as for most of us our primary occupation is our daily work) but for moral, physical and spiritual gain. It is our passion and often passion and work do not align in life.

If you have a passion for something, then you should try and do it, even if you're only able to do it a few times per week. Kyokushin is a liftime journey and the frequency of your training will vary depending on the events in your life at any given moment. If you have the passion, just go for it and enjoy All the rest will come.

[mary222]

why might not come to an agreement in this topic cause we compare to very different things.
before any further explanation , i would like to say that i have huge respect for any sports and athletes.
to me martial art is more than a sport. ok a said it. i know that when you train serously in any sport you are totally "immerse" in it. and all you think about is your game and what you need to work on or what you are going to do next practice etc... but martial art and espicially kyokushin in more than just technical . to a certain extent a would say that you can have and live the kyokushin spirit without trainning. it's about the way you live, about exeding your own expectation in any sphere of your life not just about tournament result.

[olyckan]

Frank Shamrock former champion of the UFC and several other organisations i think started training at the age of 23.. It took him 6 years to become a champion. I have read several intervjues where he states he lived for MMA. MMA is widely more complex then competing in Kyukoshin/knockdown karate. If he could be a MMA champion in 6 years then I guess.. Alot is based on your genes, if you have trained something else before etc. Also and even more important I think having a good Sensei or a good training partner is very important for fast development.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by chen3141

What about a student on a tight budget? If you have time, but not the money, or no money but all the time or neither but still have a yearning desire, what options are available to you?

hi chen, i think if appoached most senseis etc are sympathetic to the poorer student.

if i was genuinely poor i would offer to clean the dojo, look after the books, book the other karateka in on the night and offer to be the general dogs body in return for lessons.

if you have money but no time i would advertise on this site for private out of hours tuition.

no money, no time, you`ve got me with that one !!