Krav Maga and Kyokushin

[Brazilian Berseker]

Hi everyone....

Well I just saw the Human Weapon episode about Krav Maga, but the topic will not be about Human Weapon (I know the show has a lot of problems and it's not good at all).
Anyway, I was wondering. I don't really know how I feel about Krav Maga, at one hand It's really great that they train for "reality", but at other hand, I feel that they don't really do "full contact". One thing is to know the movements for fighting..........another thing is to really put that in practice.
Those who know Krav Maga better than I do, please jump in and give your opinions.....I would appreciate that a lot.
And a second thing....did Krav Maga and kyokushin have ever cross their ways at some point?.,....does krav maga use any kyokushin tecniques?...or concepts? Did Sosai ever foght any krav maga fighter or something?

Thanks everyone, and please, no politics....

OSSU!

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

i personally don't see krav maga as a style. as with many other "reality based" arts it's a blend of techniques taught in a simplistic manner that students can learn for self defense.

in my opinion self defense is more a mind-set than techniques. it doesn't matter what you know or how you train. it is being familiar with people (awareness, reading body language, etc.). people have to keep in mind that predators (those who commit violent acts) get a lot of experience doing what they do. so, if they make the first move anything can happen. your experiences, will to survive and hard training are going to get you through such situations.

as far as techniques are concerned, those techniques that one has trained and made into an automatic response are what's going to be used. it doesn't matter if it's a punch, kick, throw, or a brick. if you train in kyokushin for a year or two and get a foundations of the basic, i'm sure you'll have useable skills. also, anyone who is learning how to defend themselves, has to do full contact training. it trains one to throw effective techniques and conditions the body and mind.

[Brazilian Berseker]

Originally Posted by SHIDOKANATLANTA

i personally don't see krav maga as a style. as with many other "reality based" arts it's a blend of techniques taught in a simplistic manner that students can learn for self defense.

in my opinion self defense is more a mind-set than techniques. it doesn't matter what you know or how you train. it is being familiar with people (awareness, reading body language, etc.). people have to keep in mind that predators (those who commit violent acts) get a lot of experience doing what they do. so, if they make the first move anything can happen. your experiences, will to survive and hard training are going to get you through such situations.

as far as techniques are concerned, those techniques that one has trained and made into an automatic response are what's going to be used. it doesn't matter if it's a punch, kick, throw, or a brick. if you train in kyokushin for a year or two and get a foundations of the basic, i'm sure you'll have useable skills.

I agree with you in many aspects, I think self defense is more about the right mindset than anything else. That's why I think since krav maga (As far as I know) lacks hardcore full contact sparring you only get to the "if he does that you do this" stuf. That really is not enough. In a real fight you might (actually you probally will) get hit...and you have to get used to it and not panic.....
Not panicking.......well that's the real edge that kyokushin, Muay Thai, Boxers, kickboxers, savateurs have over other martial artists and commom people that are not used to get hit and just freeze......
What do you think?

Tks a lot, Osu!!!

[James]

OSU!

I think as a concept, krav maga is great. Its like the military version of bruce lee's style....Take what works, discard what doesnt and eventually you end up with a set of kick arse techniques called krav maga. As to how they train those techniques, I guess that depends on where and who you train with. If your in the israli military and learnt it there, I wouldnt want to mess with you!!
But for the rest of there dojo's who knows? I have seen a few vids where they put alot of pads on and spar... with weapons, but that may not happen at all dojos.

As for drilling basic techniques in the "he does this, you do that" fashion, Its kinda the same as basics in kyokushin, but you need a partner to drill takedowns.

I agree that anyone who wants to be able to keep a clear head in a real fight, needs to know what it feels like to get hit, and kyokushin does a pretty good job of that. but what if mista krav maga gets in first and throws you? have you trained for that real sitiuation?



just my two cents...

BTW, I've never done krav maga, im not trying to endors it. + I love kyoushin!
But in my old style we used to do alot of defence work and if you drill it over and over and over for months(with dynmaic, yet controlled force), you do feel quite comfortable with it after a while...add some adrenaline and I dont see why it wont work in a real situation?

You know the feeling of being confident that your kyokushin skills are up to it, so you dont fear that bully and can stand up to him...well if you train weapon defence for a couple of years, you feel the same even if the bully is holding a bat!

OSU!
Weapons defence rocks!

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

like i said before, all the reality based arts came about because of terrorist scares in recent years. so, marketing has made a lot a people a lot of money. if i felt uncertain and insecure about my karate, then i would have never done it. common sense is what's needed for reality. when martial arts dojos have to add "reality based" classes, they send the message that they aren't teaching effective martial arts.

[Dent]

Osu! ShidokanAtlanta,

Great explanations, and good coverage of the topic. Please have some rep!

Osu!

[James]

Osu, I had a rant, then realised i misread your post! So ive removed it.
James

[homer_simpson]

I have never done any Krav Maga before, and I actually have the same interest as Brazillian Beserker does about how Krav Maga and Kyokushin would compare to each other.

Based on what I know so far, Krav Maga aims to teach people so that they can master self-defense within the shortest time possible. It is a practical system for someone who needs to learn self-defense fast. Krav Maga is widely used for military training, as well as for those who are in the security business. It covers a wide range of situations, ranging from grappling, self-defense against guns/knives, etc.

On the other hand, Kyokushin has a somewhat different goal. Kyokushin is all about self-improvement via martial art training. So you get better physical condition, self-confidence, mentality, techniques, etc. However, in Kyokushin, all those come with time. So you can probably do a lot more with a year in Krav Maga than a year in Kyokushin. However, in the long-run, I do think that Kyokushin practitioners are better equipped.

[Dent]

Osu!

If we're trying to compare apples and oranges, doesn't that really say something about us?

With two such divergent purposes in training, and with an even wider gap in how each is taught in various schools, can any comparison be effective?

Osu!

[Raii]

I tried Krav Maga at the Fighter Conention in Oslo, Norway. And the instructors told us they had very 'realistic' training methods. For example, when fighting someone with a knife, they wore white t-shirts and put lipstick, ketchup or fake blood on the knife so that they could see afterwards how many times and where they had been hit. And they also practised at night outside in the streets and in bars to achieve that 'realistic' effect.

In a real fight you might (actually you probally will) get hit...and you have to get used to it and not panic.

So you can probably do a lot more with a year in Krav Maga than a year in Kyokushin. However, in the long-run, I do think that Kyokushin practitioners are better equipped.

Unless the person who is attacking you is a total amateur, you will probably get hit, yes. Training martial arts gives us (atleast in my case) confidence that if you should ever end up in a situation where a fight is inevitable, you will atleast know how to defend yourself. That confidence, I think, will help prevent freezing in panic.
And the more you train, the more confidence you gain(not confidence as in 'I'm the best, let's see you try to stab me with that knife', mind). So as long as you learn techniques that enable you to survive an attack, in my opinion it doesn't matter if it's Krav Maga, Kyokushin or Taekwondo or whatever.

However, I think mental training is important too. If you are attacked, and you get stabbed by a knife, and you keep thinking 'Holy shit I'm going to die', your chances are pretty slim if the injuries are serious. But if you keep thinking 'I am going to live', you've got a better chance of surviving.

If we're trying to compare apples and oranges, doesn't that really say something about us?

With two such divergent purposes in training, and with an even wider gap in how each is taught in various schools, can any comparison be effective?

Osu, Dent!
I don't think you can compare Kyokushin and Krav Maga. What little I have seen of Krav Maga has left me with an impression that it does what is effective, and the techniques appear very rough and unrefined (in lack of a better word), whereas Kyokushin teaches an ocean of techniques as well as ethics, and emphasises self-improvement.
Of course, if you want to be on the safe side, you can always train both

Osu!

[Dobbersky]

Krav Maga is an effective style and if you look at the techniques as I have, studying Traditional Karate, Jujitsu, Aikido and Ashihara Karate, Everything you see in Krav Maga you CAN find in you Karate.

Krav Maga's founder Imi Lichtenfeld, was a well rounded Martial artist before forming Krav Maga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga). If you take the Pinan Kata for example you will observe that similar techniques are used in for example Pinan Shodan and Pinan Sandan for techniques against grabs and strangle holds.

Krav Maga is an Excellent 2nd art to do along side you Kyokushin etc, as Krav Maga includes take downs and take down defenses (even though these are also included in the Pinan kata (Iain Abernethy's 'Karate's Grappling Methods' (Paperback) available from most Books shops etc).

Remember the art you study and practice IS a complete Art, it is just how YOU percieve the techniques etc is to how you use them.

Osu