When are you ready for knock down?

blazindave · 08-13-2008, 05:05 AM

I've only done full contact and i want to try knock down.
This saturday my dojo is doing a demonstration down at the old port of montreal.
Now i'm 20 and 7th kyu and my shihan was looking for someone to fight a shodan, who is also 20.
He deemed i was not ready yet.
Now i'm curious as to when you think a student is ready for knock down. Is it an age thing or a belt thing?
Mind you this is one of our dojo's best fighters and i'm not upset or anything, i just thought it would be interesting to see the different views.

Osu

**Olrac** · 08-13-2008, 08:26 AM

If your shihan thinks that you're not ready, I guess you'd better take his advise.
He knows your level of knowledge and of your opponent. In my opinion; he is protecting you. Maybe you can try to have a few rounds with that shodan inside the dojo (maybe at 50/60% power).
I'm not sure what that demonstration must be like. Is it a real match or is it a prepared demo (like: "if I hit you here, you must react with a kick there")
OSU

blazindave · 08-13-2008, 08:42 AM

A real match.

**Olrac** · 08-13-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazindave

A real match.

In that case; I guess your shihan knows best.

**ksan** · 08-13-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olrac

If your shihan thinks that you're not ready, I guess you'd better take his advise.
He knows your level of knowledge and of your opponent. In my opinion; he is protecting you.
OSU

Going with Olrac (and Spirit) on this one, "listen to your sensei". Its not an age or a belt thing, but an ability thing. If your sensei says no he does so with your best interest in mind.

From what i know is that, even if you and the shodan have both zero "real matches" done, the shodan will have fought many many more fights for his gradings to this date (giving him much more experiance)

Osu

**hasbeen** · 08-13-2008, 11:44 AM

imo you are only ready to fight knockdown when you have been pounded with full power bare fist punches and kicks, including thigh kicks and are conditioned to that sort of thing.....it takes a long time.

then you have to be confident about you defence..if it all goes wrong which believe me it can do, you need to be able to relax and take it, covering up.
being able to take it is more important than being able to give it, never forget that.

in your shoes i would do one of two things,

1) approach a friendly high grade, at least the same size as yourself and ask if he would be ok with sparring k.d rules and get somebody like this to take you under their wing and help you progress to knockdown gradually.but be prepared to get thigh kicked and hope the "killer" kick is pulled a bit which most people do when teaching.....if you do get the chance to land a head kick, pull it out of respect.......in every dojo there is normally different levels of freefighting, you should adapt to the "rules" as they come along...if in doubt ask.

2) if you really think you are ready and are being held back which i don`t think is the case with you, i think you are being given sound advice.........but

when you spar with experienced knockdown fighters, especially those with pretty gold lettering or stripes give them a good bashing,don`t hold back and the outcome will determine whether you are "ready" or not.

kakatootoshi · 08-13-2008, 11:56 AM

By the way what is the difference between "knockdown" and "full-contact"?

To answer blazindave's question I think only your instructor knows how good you are. I guess age has nothing to do in your case as you are already 20, and on top of that the opponent is of the same age (unless you are going to fight in an age-specific group). Belt could be but not necessary.

Try to approach your instructor politely and ask him what he thinks.

OSU!

ANTSAN · 08-13-2008, 12:55 PM

My understanding of knockdown in simple terms is no body protection, bare knuckle, only protection is mouth guard and groin guard. The match is won when one opponent knocks the other to the mat or by KO. Im guessing its more of a US term?? I didnt really come accross it until joining here we always just know it as full contact, and wearing shin pads and mitts we term as novice full contact, anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong here

Osu!

Torakun · 08-13-2008, 01:35 PM

To make sure you're ready to enter a knockdown fight/tournament I would say, without a doubt, that you need to have experienced being hit and kicked at full force. I can remember what a shock it was when I was hit 'hard' for the first time sparring. One of the most important things is to get over the fear of actually being hit by someone. A mistake to experience this for the first time in a 'real' fight - although no doubt you would learn a lot. Once you've been hit hard enough for long enough it is amazing how your perspective changes and your ability to control your breathing as well as energy consumption differs from the first time on the mat for real. Also, body conditioning is a major part. Personally, I was always worried how my shins would stand up, and that played on my mind quite a bit before my first fight - I had been to a lot of national tournaments before and heard the whack of shin bone against shin bone in the past and cringed at the sound.

Dent · 08-13-2008, 01:53 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasbeen

when you spar with experienced knockdown fighters, especially those with pretty gold lettering or stripes give them a good bashing,don`t hold back and the outcome will determine whether you are "ready" or not.

While all the rest of H's advice is sound, this is the real answer to your question. It isn't about age or rank, but all about the capacity to do the business.

Osu!

blazindave · 08-13-2008, 10:12 PM

I can take a hit, no problem. This is for sure. I've done full contact which is basically knock down with shin pads (the thin white ones). However i feel ill never get the experience of knock down unless i do it. Fortunately theres a knock down tournament coming up in november. So i can get the experience there.
And one of my problems fighting is im not able to fully wail into someone. I prefer taking hits/blocking/evading than hitting back. It's a rut i'm trying to get out of.
I think ill just have to ask a shodan to help me out in the dojo.

Thanks and osu

Nix · 08-13-2008, 10:15 PM

As have already been mentioned, there are no general line whereafter the student is automatically ready. It's very individual, and has to do with a lot of things: skill (technique, understanding, speed, timing, etc.), maturity, condition, determination and so on in that fashion.

Torakun,

Thank you for your advice. We would be happy to know you a little better! Please introduce yourself.

Osu!

Dent · 08-13-2008, 10:37 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazindave

I can take a hit, no problem. This is for sure. I've done full contact which is basically knock down with shin pads (the thin white ones). However i feel ill never get the experience of knock down unless i do it. Fortunately theres a knock down tournament coming up in november. So i can get the experience there.
And one of my problems fighting is im not able to fully wail into someone. I prefer taking hits/blocking/evading than hitting back. It's a rut i'm trying to get out of.
I think ill just have to ask a shodan to help me out in the dojo.

Thanks and osu

Sounds like you have the right attitude for Knockdown, BlazinDave. I say, focus on the tournament, and tell us all about your experience.

Osu!

walshy · 08-13-2008, 10:52 PM

Was going to ask a similar question about entering my first knockdown tournement, but reading these posts has helped me out. I am only a tenth kyu and was quite keen on entering a knockdown in Nov, after reading this thread however i can see that i am nowhere near ready for this. However my Sensei has said that there may be a section for complete novice beginners, in which case i will have a go, and hopefully gain some valuable experience.

Dent · 08-13-2008, 11:03 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by walshy

Was going to ask a similar question about entering my first knockdown tournement, but reading these posts has helped me out. I am only a tenth kyu and was quite keen on entering a knockdown in Nov, after reading this thread however i can see that i am nowhere near ready for this. However my Sensei has said that there may be a section for complete novice beginners, in which case i will have a go, and hopefully gain some valuable experience.

Nothing beats experience, Walshy! Good luck with your tourney too!

Osu!

walshy · 08-13-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

Nothing beats experience, Walshy! Good luck with your tourney too!

Osu!

Thanks Dent, but not sure if there will be a novice section as yet. If not there will be a clicker comp or two to enter and I will go for the knockdown next year with a bit more training and prep under my belt.

**tmd** · 08-13-2008, 11:35 PM

If the only difference is them thin white pads between what you call full contact and knockdown you're already doing knockdown according to IKF and a lot of others rules

.

Your issue of taking a lot without giving much back is a sparing issue, not enough of it - I'm guessing you just don't seem to be able to find a gap, the right time the right move? it comes with practice, defending is more natural to most than all out attack, especially if when you have attacked you've caught a few or hit an elbow or similar.

Work on your combo's and try and get them in during you're dojo training sessions - to know if you're ready the answer is as all above have said but also you need to feel 200% ready before hand as on the day 100% of dojo level fighting will be around 50% of what's required to stay on the mat - if that makes sense

ANTSAN · 08-14-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walshy

am only a tenth kyu and was quite keen on entering a knockdown in Nov, after reading this thread however i can see that i am nowhere near ready for this.

Grade doesn't matter in my opinion between dojo to dojo the way people train can be very different, the grade is only a belt and isn't always a true representation of tournament capability. It's not uncommon to hear of say a 7th Kyu sit a 1st kyu on the matt. If in your time you've done plenty of bag work, combinations and ofcourse sparring then you'll probably be fine. My first full contact tournament was at 10kyu also (was against other 10th kyu's). Just go in there with the mindset of gathering experience, giving it your best, be patient and don't give yourself unrealistic expectations.

**hasbeen** · 08-14-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walshy

Was going to ask a similar question about entering my first knockdown tournement, but reading these posts has helped me out. I am only a tenth kyu and was quite keen on entering a knockdown in Nov, after reading this thread however i can see that i am nowhere near ready for this. However my Sensei has said that there may be a section for complete novice beginners, in which case i will have a go, and hopefully gain some valuable experience.

OSU WALSHY! i don`t mean to be a party pooper but i would make sure you have two years training experience before you enter any knockdown.(imo)
you obviously have the right attitude, the two years will fly by..savour it!!

see you in october?

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