The Generations of Kyokushin Karate

[IFKQ80]

Correction on the third generation (Thanks to all who made that clear) and I also added a new generation (The Fourth generation).

The Third generation:

- Matsui
- Andy hug
- Midori
- Hiroki Kurosawa
- Akira Masuda
- Ademir da Costa
- Yasuhiro Sichinohe

The Fourth generation:

- Francisco Filho
- Hajime Kazumi
- Tamura

IFKQ80

[IFKQ80]

Originally Posted by kakatootoshi

I think it is not easy to classify these karatekas into generations.
For example, according to an interview of Shihan Quinn, he first started kyokushin with Shihan Frank Everett, who was taught by Shihan Kato Shigeru. So in this theory he could be a 4th generation kyokushin karateka. But as he also spent a considerable period in Japan studying with Sosai Oyama so he is also a 2nd generation in kyokushin. And I think Filho and Kazumi can also be called 3rd generation because their instructors, Shihan Hiroshige and Isobe, have both been taught by Sosai. Anyway I think this difficulty in tracing a family tree is something good, as it shows people in kyokushin are all willing to share knowledge with each other, and not be bordered by hierarchy (just like what we are doing in this forum).

OSU!

I agree with you kakatootoshi I know it is difficult but it also depend on how we look at it. The way I looked at it was when did he joined Kyokushin Karate and who are the people he worked with something like that.

I wish we all can share information and knowledge with each other too and I think the K4L site is doing a good job at that.

IFKQ80

And the five generation?

° Teixeira
° Kiyama
° Kurbanov

and more.....

[Shaolin Bushido]

Man, the information and more importantly, ANECDOTAL/HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE from threads like this is just ... impossible to describe.

Thank you.

[Lonewolf]

OSU! I agree, let's start with information on Mr. Kenji Kurosaki and then Mr. Shigeru Oyama. Both of these men are extremely interesting characters and I think eveyone here would enjoy reading career information on these remarkable men. IFKQ80, I think you should start it and those who have information, such as myself, can share it in these posts. What do you think of this idea? OSU!

[Dim]

What we need is a big family tree-type-chart with joining dates and who poeple trained under.

[sokaiya]

Osu kakatooshi!
I don't think Generation should be based upon who they were taught by but by when they made their impacts. It is most difficult to place someone when they've been taught by so many. So maybe we should keep it seperate.

[spanky11]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

OSU! I agree, let's start with information on Mr. Kenji Kurosaki and then Mr. Shigeru Oyama. Both of these men are extremely interesting characters and I think eveyone here would enjoy reading career information on these remarkable men. IFKQ80, I think you should start it and those who have information, such as myself, can share it in these posts. What do you think of this idea? OSU!

agreed. I think first hand accounts of these great men from people who have trained with and under them are far more valuable than anything else.

As I know you have trained under Kenji Kurosaki Lonewolf, a few stories here would be much appreciated..

Shigeru Oyama (to me at least) always looked VERY imitidating in his classes from the Strongest Karate videos...

I heard from a high ranking European instructor when he was at a summer training camp in the early 1970's in Holland he asked the class to go into sanchin-dachi and he went along the front line and smashed all of the blackbelts with the shinai. Then Shihan Howard Collins (at the time a 2nd dan) whispered to the guy standing next to him "He is not going to make me go back" as all the other shodans backed down after 2 smashes to the midsection...

Well, Shigeru finally got to Shihan Collins and hit him 4 times with the shihai and he wouldn't go back...Finally he got so mad that Shihan Collins wasn't backing down that he hit him across the face with the shinai...

As I wasn't there (hell, I wasn't even born then), I can't confirm this, but the guy who told me is quite high up in food chain and has no reason to lie about it...

[IFKQ80]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

OSU! I agree, let's start with information on Mr. Kenji Kurosaki and then Mr. Shigeru Oyama. Both of these men are extremely interesting characters and I think eveyone here would enjoy reading career information on these remarkable men. IFKQ80, I think you should start it and those who have information, such as myself, can share it in these posts. What do you think of this idea? OSU!

I think it's an excellent idea so let's vote on who we should start with first and why this is more important?

IFKQ80

[IFKQ80]

Originally Posted by Dim

What we need is a big family tree-type-chart with joining dates and who poeple trained under.

This is great any suggestion on how to start that?

IFKQ80

[IFKQ80]

Originally Posted by spanky11

agreed. I think first hand accounts of these great men from people who have trained with and under them are far more valuable than anything else.

As I know you have trained under Kenji Kurosaki Lonewolf, a few stories here would be much appreciated..

Shigeru Oyama (to me at least) always looked VERY imitidating in his classes from the Strongest Karate videos...

I heard from a high ranking European instructor when he was at a summer training camp in the early 1970's in Holland he asked the class to go into sanchin-dachi and he went along the front line and smashed all of the blackbelts with the shinai. Then Shihan Howard Collins (at the time a 2nd dan) whispered to the guy standing next to him "He is not going to make me go back" as all the other shodans backed down after 2 smashes to the midsection...

Well, Shigeru finally got to Shihan Collins and hit him 4 times with the shihai and he wouldn't go back...Finally he got so mad that Shihan Collins wasn't backing down that he hit him across the face with the shinai...

As I wasn't there (hell, I wasn't even born then), I can't confirm this, but the guy who told me is quite high up in food chain and has no reason to lie about it...

thank you for the information and from the videos I think that shihan Collins can do something like that.

IFKQ80

[Lonewolf]

OSU! Yes, I trained under Shihan Kurosaki back in the 1960's when my Father was stationed in the military in Japan. I remember many things from that time, but most of the outstanding things were training related. Shihan was extraordinary as a fighter and an instructor. I would be honored to share stories from that time. Kyokushin will never be like it was back then ever again. As to Mr. Shigeru Oyama, I am also familiar with him. I can 100% believe the story about Howard Collins and him geeting mad that Collins would'nt back down. Mr. Oyama had a very quick temper and he was all business when it came to Karate. No nonsensense and he always expected 150% from every student that he trained, no matter who it was. I think he felt alot of pressure and responsibility being Mas. Oyama's "Ichiban Deshi(the best student of them all)" and always had to maintain a very high standard. But, really he had a good heart and intention and really cared about each student's development and progress. I have seen him away from the martial arts scene and he is really a nice person, just very driven and passionate about Karate that's all. I would love to see posts started on these remarkable men. When do we get started? OSU!

[Azimuth]

Lonewolf- san
It's your call
Just start a new thread you already have one
very interested reader ; )
Osu

[Roadrunner]

I woul like to Add Donald Irving Buck to the second generation

[RASor]

Osu,

This is indeed a great idea. A family tree of Kyokushin Practitioners beginning with Great Sosai Mas Oyama.

Timely idea since some of the original students of Sosai are still with us. Best we interview them. Ask who were their co-pratitioners and whereabouts. Like Shihan Peter Chong is Chairman for Asia and Middle East trained under Sosai Oyama. Also Shihan Higashitani who taught Sensei Andy Hug his kicks trained under Sosai Oyama, now trains in Ashihara.

Kancho Oyama of Oyama Karate could give us historical account (BTW, Kancho Oyama is less strict to his students in NY Honbu) like Hanshi Steve Arneil in several interviews (posted in internet) mentions his experience and encounters in Kyokushinkai.

Historical records will enrich our knowledge of our Heritage/Martial Art giving us better foundation - stronger foothold of our respective Martial Arts under Kyokushinkaikan of Sosai Masutatsu Oyama.

Congratulations IFKQ80-san to such a brilliant idea. I will do research and interview and post whatever information I get.

Osu!

[laughingmonk]

Where would you place Shihan Andre Gilbert in the 2nd or 3rd generation?

Shihan Andre Gilbert was a major player in kyokushin development and spreading in Canada, mostly the Eastearn part. I think 50 Dojos are affiliated with him.

If you would like to read on Shihan Andre Gilbert view it here

[IFKQ80]

I will start wish Sosai Mas Oyama.

how about we vote who we should talk about next?

-Tadashi Nakamura
-Shigeru Oyama
-Steve Arneil
-Ashihara
-Kenji Kurosaki

IFKQ80

[IFKQ80]

The founder of our system, Masutatsu Oyama was born in 1923 near Seoul in South Korea. He studied Chinese Kempo at 9 years of age. When he was 12, he went to Japan to live and enrolled at University. After mastering Judo, he became a pupil of Gichin Funakoshi himself making such rapid progress that at 17 he was 2nd Dan and at 24became 4th Dan. Deciding that he wanted to devote the rest of his life to spreading the knowledge of Karate, he spent the next year in seclusion from human society, living in temples and in the mountains; subjecting himself to the physical rigours of martial arts training day and night and meditating on Zen precepts, seeking enlightenment. In 1951 he returned to civilisation and started his own training hall in Tokyo.

In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national television. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it.

In 1953, Mas Oyama opened his first "Dojo", a grass lot in Mejiro in Tokyo. In 1956, the first real Dojo was opened in a former ballet studio behind Rikkyo University, 500 meters from the location of the current Japanese Honbu dojo (headquarters). By 1957 there were 700 members, despite the high drop-out rate due to the harshness of training.

Sadly, Sosai Mas Oyama died, of lung cancer (as a non-smoker), at the age of 70 in April 1994.


(The is not all to be said about Sosai and anyone could any more infomation of his own)

IFKQ80

OSU

[Lonewolf]

OSU! Starting with Sosai Oyama is the respectful thing to do, but it is not necessary. There is already tons and tons of information on the internet, in books, movies, dvd/videos, etc. on Sosai already. So, I really think we should focus on the people who are lesser known such as Kenji Kurosaki, Shigeru Oyama, Tadashi Nakamura, Shogo Ariake, Eiji Yasuda, Hirobumi Okada, Yuzo Goda, Yoshiji Soeno, Hasegawa, Masashi Ishibashi, Akio Fujihira, Hideyuki Ashiwara, Seiji Isobe, Yasuhiko Oyama, Miyuki Miura, Hatsuo Royama, Tsuyoshi Hiroshige, Terutomo Yamazaki, Katsuaki Sato, Nobuyuki Kishi, Takumi Higashidani, Toshikazu Sato, Masatoshi Maeda, Takashi Azuma, Joko Ninomiya, etc. for starters. This is just to give you an idea of the direction that we are going in. Hopefully, some of the higher ranking Shihans will give some input and insights into these magnificent Budo-Ka here. I know that I can give good information on several of these people here and looking forward to getting started. So, let's vote on who will be next. OSU!

[IFKQ80]

Lonewolf: So, let's vote on who will be next. OSU!

IFKQ80: I vote Tadashi Nakamura

OSU!