Best P4P fighter in the UFC

Dent · 04-22-2008, 01:47 AM

Osu!

In response to this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ushideshinidan

GSP had a plan and followed his plan. He was well prepared, physically and mentally ready and we saw the outcome...
He is to my opinion the best fighter pound for pound in the UFC.

Osu!

I thought that this would be a great topic for discussion. Do you think he's better than Anderson Silva? If so, why?

Who else can claim the P4P title? (Current and past crop fighting at this level)

Osu!

powerof0ne · 04-22-2008, 08:50 AM

Anderson Silva, without a doubt. There is talk about GSP going up in weight to fight him but I think it would be a bad move on GSP's part.

seienchin · 04-22-2008, 10:41 AM

What does P4P stand for. In my domain (quality management) it means Pay for Performance. Maybe it is the same..you fight well, you get paid???

vapor · 04-22-2008, 10:45 AM

or....it could mean "Pound for Pound"....

vapor

seienchin · 04-22-2008, 10:51 AM

I read that - I just for some reason couldn't make it fit P4P.. Just goes to show how much of a rut our brains get into during a working day...

also, in my defence, it would the K4K in Australia where we don't weigh in Pounds, but in kilograms.

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 04-22-2008, 11:21 AM

i agree with power of one. right now they all need to leave silva alone.

Fabian · 04-22-2008, 01:08 PM

i think silva is a more devastating/clinical fighter with a great thai bjj combo but i think GSP has a very dynamic style which is hard to combat because of its versatility. i think when someone finds out how to stop silva they will continue to stop him but once GSP figures out his game it will be a very complete game.

Kansetsu · 04-22-2008, 01:46 PM

I agree with Fabian...every single fight i see GSP evolving and getting better. The Spider however...is a GREAT fighter, but i don't see any improvements from the time he started to fight in UFC till now. It might be because that no one was good enough to force him to evolve...that might be the case, but as it stands right now, i don't see any evolution from him. Always the same...he knows ground game, and he's awesome in stand up.

I don't know...Pound for Pound per say, but i do know the top notch in each division...

Lightweight: BJ Penn
Welterweight: GSP
Middleweight: Anderson Silva
Light Heavy: ??? Not too sure...Rampage is good, but he's not the best...
Heavyweight: Randy Couture

Honestly i think Couture is best in my opinion...not because he's the champ, or he has super good skills. No, he's the best p4p cause he evolves...not just a bit...but dramatically. He was knocked out twice by the Liddell...he retires, and comes back...with the stand up boxing skills that would even make the Ice man think twice about going head to head with him. His changes are very dramatic. He made Gonzaga and Timmey look like amateurs on the mat when he fought them...

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 04-22-2008, 01:52 PM

silva is the most versatile fighter at present. he has shown us that by beating great grapplers (marquadt, travis lutter), great wrestlers (dan, henderson), good strikers (franklin). he has shown no weaknesses. his game is complete. right now he is the mold of the elite fighter. of course any fighter can lose at any given moment (i.e. he lost to chonin at the last moment of a match he was dominating). but for the most part, he would overwhelm most opposition.

**Mikemok1981** · 04-22-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHIDOKANATLANTA

silva is the most versatile fighter at present. he has shown us that by beating great grapplers (marquadt, travis lutter), great wrestlers (dan, henderson), good strikers (franklin). he has shown no weaknesses. his game is complete. right now he is the mold of the elite fighter. of course any fighter can lose at any given moment (i.e. he lost to chonin at the last moment of a match he was dominating). but for the most part, he would overwhelm most opposition.

You thought he was dominating that fight? I was pretty sure Chonin was gonna walk away with the decision on that one. But P4P rankings are always tough. They are always going to be subjective. For me, the P4P is Anderson Silva. He's dangerous everywhere. GSP has some holes, particuarly in his striking game. However, I do believe that GSP has the ability to overcome those very quickly. He's probably the best pure athlete in the UFC and the fastest learner. So for now Anderson, in the future most likely GSP.

Kansetsu · 04-22-2008, 03:32 PM

Mike, exactly what i am thinking...i see GSP constantly overcoming his short comings...becoming better and better. always evolving. if he looses, he comes back better. (i'm not saying he's perfect...he always have the chance to lose again by the same technique)...but Anderson? he's powerful now...but i am wondering if he has reached his potential...i wonder if someone surpasses him, will he have the knowledge and ability to overcome that, and come back stronger?

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 04-22-2008, 04:10 PM

only time will tell who the P4P best is (and that will always change). and that depends on who guys fight. the ufc has thrown there best shot at silva and he has overcome them all with ease. he has shown no holes recently, so i am going to assume that he'll keep kicking butt and taking names for some time. the only thing i'd like to see gsp improve on are his hands.

Kansetsu · 04-22-2008, 04:59 PM

Shidokan-san...

I agree with you to an extent...what i don't disagree with is who is the best at a particular moment. LOL, that kinda sounded pretty dumb...but here is my reasoning. (using Anderson as an example...i'm not picking on him...lol). Anderson is a great fighter, that is no doubt...and other than Lutter in UFC, he beat everyone that they threw at him without really going all the way. in that sense of the word, he is the best right now.

When someone asks me who is the best...i don't look at "right now", cause right now always changes...what i do look at is their potential. They might be good (not great) right now, but give time, if they have the potential for growth, and become better, then i say that fighter is a better fighter than the one who is already Great, but reached his/her max potential.

For example...(lol...i'm gonna use video game for an example. so i hope you all understand it.)

Fighter A: Fighting level of 60 with a max cap of 80. (that's 20 levels of improvement)
Fighter B: Fighting level of 50 with a max cap of 120. (that's 70 levels of improvement)

Sure, at this current level fighter A is a better fighter pound for pound...but looking at the growth potential, Fighter B is a better fighter over all, considering that Fighter B has the will power and training to keep going and tap the potential power.

LOL...i hope that made some what of a sense...

OSU!

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 04-23-2008, 01:53 AM

only time will tell like you say kansetsu-san. having watched silva over the years (before ufc), it can be said that he has been tested and has made adjustments to be better. i just feel that for him to come and defeat some of the top fighters in mma (franklin, henderson, marquate, leben) with ease shows that his potential is truly great. he has silva has expressed an interest in fighting gsp at a catch weight. he has mentioned also going up to 205 and fighting for that title as well. he has asked (but denied by exclusive contract with ufc) to fight (boxing rules) against roy jones jr. (because he is a his biggest fan). he truly wants to test himself against the best.

Dent · 04-23-2008, 02:04 AM

Osu! Seienchin,

Quote:

Originally Posted by seienchin

I read that - I just for some reason couldn't make it fit P4P.. Just goes to show how much of a rut our brains get into during a working day...

also, in my defence, it would the K4K in Australia where we don't weigh in Pounds, but in kilograms.

But that would come before K4L, and we just couldn't allow that!

P4P/ pound for pound because that's the way the UFC weighs in its fighters.

Osu!

Dent · 04-23-2008, 02:34 AM

Osu!

Ah, I knew this would be fun.

The difficulty with being the best at any one time is that getting the stretch to the next level can be hard. I think most of us can say that we've learned a lot more from our losses than our wins.

IMO, Anderson Silva will up his game when he faces someone who challenges him to do it. Right now he's cruising because that's all he needs to do.

If it came down to potential..... Hmmmmm..... The next crop are coming though, and they're coming hard. Nick Diaz's little brother has potential. I'm looking forward to seeing more from him. Wagnney Fabiano is also up there.

Who else?

Osu!

Osu!

tobiseikentsuki · 04-23-2008, 09:00 AM

i actually quite fancy that Ryoto Machida guy, super cool!
I never knew shotokan and sumo would be that practical in the "cage", but i heard how Kenji Midori trained in sumo to learn how to not step back against bigger opponents in preparation for his world tournament, would it help with the sprawl in MMA?

One,
TobiSeikenTsuki

Dent · 04-23-2008, 11:14 AM

Osu! TobiSeikenTsuki,

Honestly, I have no idea if it would help. Mechanically, I don't think it's ideal, and there seem to be several better variations out there.

(There's such a difference between the level of attack that the leverage is completely different.)

Osu!

seienchin · 04-23-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu! Seienchin,

But that would come before K4L, and we just couldn't allow that!

P4P/ pound for pound because that's the way the UFC weighs in its fighters.

Osu!

I learn so much in the forum!! gotta love it. I am just looking forward to the next time my Boss is talking about P4P, and I can say - "Why - who are you going to fight??"

tobiseikentsuki · 04-23-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu! TobiSeikenTsuki,

Honestly, I have no idea if it would help. Mechanically, I don't think it's ideal, and there seem to be several better variations out there.

(There's such a difference between the level of attack that the leverage is completely different.)

Osu!

We were in training at rugby, and the coach introduces a form of a tackle that i never knew how it could possibly work, the sprawl. I was hoping the guy with the ball runs into me with his shoulder levelled at my stomach, and i, initiate the sprawl.
I was wrong (in fact i performed a high tackle

), in fact, it was a two-man tackling technique that required a team mate to grab his legs, while the other grabbed the torso from under the arms. I never knew the sprawl was so practical.
It was funny, i was watching one of the league teams train the same thing (Parra. Eels!! they appear on tv and train at our school, half the team knows my name, see them at school gym and pools every morning!

) and the understanding of the technique can differentiate alot. The coach was telling us how hopeless they were at it

Thinking about it, sumo isn't very practical.........i think

One,
TobiSeikenKsubi

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