Sak vs Nakahara **SPOILER**

[Kurisu]

Nakahara lost by either rear naked choke or neck crank. From what I've read he had a good showing up until that point. I'll try to find clips later.

[sublimo]

http://www.kyokushin4life.com/forums...html#post57710

[Dent]

Osu!

Excellent!

Thank you.

Sakuraba had a very calm approach, based on years of experience. Still, a very good showing. I look forward to years of his success.

Osu!

[Lonewolf]

OSU! I was reading the various comments of MMA fight fans on other message boards, and they were giving full credit to Andrews Nakahara for performing as well as he did in his debut mma match against a veteran like Sakuraba. They were unaware of his Kyokushin background but said things like Nakahara was incredibly composed and focused as if he was a veteran, not a newcomer.
I think that is a great compliment to Nakahara and his ability. It should give all Kyokushin members pride and confidence that we are training in an incredible, versatile martial art. My point is: you don't see any competitors from other styles of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, or Kung-Fu participating in these type of events at all. They know they would get killed out there, they're not that stupid. I am very proud of all the fighting representatives of Kyokushin Karate that boldly venture into the "Kakutougi Sekai (Fighting World)", starting with the 3 Kyokushin fighters who challenged Muay-Thai in 1964, and then on to Sensei Willie Williams(who fought a mixed martial arts match against Pro-Wrestler Antonio Inoki) and continuing with our latest warrior Andrews Nakahara.
I hate to hear when Kyokushin Karateka start doubting the effectiveness of our style as a whole simply because of the results of one fight, that was under mma rules. A lot of times it simply boils down to the rules and degrees of a fighter's experience in a certain type of match. (A little side note) Before Willie Williams fought Antonio Inoki, Inoki was challenged to fight in one of our "All Japan Tournaments" in 1970's. When Inoki realized what the fighting rules consisted of, he withdrew his application and changed his mind about fighting. He did'nt feel confident fighting under knockdown Karate rules. He knew he would be at a big disadvantange as a Pro-Wrestler and did'nt want to risk the humiliation. I wonder how well Sakuraba would have fared if he entered one of our World Kyokushin Tournaments? Something to think about.
A big OSU! to Shihan Isobe and Andrews Nakahara. He may have lost the match, but he is still a winner in my book and he gained valuable experience from one of Japan's best (Sakuraba). The sky is the limit for this spirited young man in the future.
OSU!

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

My point is: you don't see any competitors from other styles of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, or Kung-Fu participating in these type of events at all. They know they would get killed out there, they're not that stupid.
OSU!

Please be aware that representatives of many other styles, and systems, do participate in MMA. I know of Ashihara, Tsu Shin Gen, Goju, Shotokan, Wing Chun, ITF TKD, WTF TKD, Sanshou, Sanda, Mantis and others.

It is good to be proud of our own achievements, but we should never lessen the achievements of others.

Osu!

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!



Please be aware that representatives of many other styles, and systems, do participate in MMA. I know of Ashihara, Tsu Shin Gen, Goju, Shotokan, Wing Chun, ITF TKD, WTF TKD, Sanshou, Sanda, Mantis and others.

It is good to be proud of our own achievements, but we should never lessen the achievements of others.

Osu!

Idem ditto.
Sansou: Chung le,
Kempo: chuck liddell
TKD: Pat Smit, Tapilatu
Wing Chung: Emin Boztepe ore eeh???
Ashihara: Sem Schilt
Judo: a lots hidehiko yoshida 4 ex.

[Sonik]

Willie Williams against Antonio Inoki in MMA?! Are you serious? That was a fixed match.

There aren't many Kyokushin fighters in MMA. You have George Saint-Pierre who comes form a Kyokushin Karate background in the UFC and very few else. Some japanese fighters like Yoshinori Ikeda and Tetsuo Seto have also been participating in MMA, but not that successfull as GSP for sure. However thsi doesn't mean Kyokushin fighters should quit any chnace on MMA. On the contrary, because many feel unprepared for that kind of matches and also because one of the goals of Kyokushin Karate is to become the best you can be, i believe the challenge should be accepted. The faster, the better.

And instead of wondering how Sakuraba or Ronald Jacare who handle themselves in a Kyokushin Karate Tournament, you should wonder how would a Kyokushin Karate fighter handle himself in a Grappling/Ju-jutsu tournament.

MMA competition was created to allow fighters form several fighting styles fight in the same ring under a set of rules that allows them to use most of their fighting skills (except for dangerous techniques such as eye gouging, groin kicks etc).

Andrew Nakahara was competing with no disadvantage except for his lack of experience and grappling training. However he showed that he has potential and seemed very relaxed for hsi first fight. I hope he keeps training hard and i also hope that next time K-1 matches him against a not so experienced opponent. Taiei Kin for instance, would be a good choice. And then, maybe Zelg Galesic and so on.

I also think Matsui Kansho should organize more Ishigeki events to prepare his Kyokushin fighters for this kind of competition. In idealistic terms, the best thing would be organising Ishigeki tournaments (under K-1 and MMA rules) exclusive to Kyokushin fighters every year. I know i already said this before but i want to reinforce this idea in this forum. What do you think?


Osu!

[Dent]

Osu! Sonik,

If you're asking if I think there should be more Ichigeki events, then Yes! I certainly hope so!

Osu!

[sublimo]

Osu Sonik,

I think ther isn t style vs style any more. Back in the days the gracies rules the octagan and mma with their excelent style Gracie JJ. Gordeau fought very well s a kyokushin karateka in the first UFC. Now the new genaration mma fighters are alround.

Fighters that came from a "traditional martial art are rare"
BJJ the gracies
JudoYoshida, Akiyama, Nastula pawel
sambo the emelianenko brothers
Karate: Schilt

Now there are more mma schools like chute box, red devil, golden glory, Team Quest, Brazilian top tram, American top team etc.

They are so specialised in it. It is better to learn/ hire trainers from them.

Sonik you really love mma isn t it?

Just found it:
listen what sihan Royce has to say: YouTube - Royce Gracie Traning video

[Sonik]

Originally Posted by sublimo

Osu Sonik,

I think ther isn t style vs style any more. Back in the days the gracies rules the octagan and mma with their excelent style Gracie JJ. Gordeau fought very well s a kyokushin karateka in the first UFC. Now the new genaration mma fighters are alround.

Fighters that came from a "traditional martial art are rare"
BJJ the gracies
JudoYoshida, Akiyama, Nastula pawel
sambo the emelianenko brothers
Karate: Schilt

Now there are more mma schools like chute box, red devil, golden glory, Team Quest, Brazilian top tram, American top team etc.

They are so specialised in it. It is better to learn/ hire trainers from them.

Sonik you really love mma isn t it?

Osu!


I think so too in a certain way. Nowadays everybody does the same kind of training. Even in K-1. I think that's the general trend.

The thing is even though most modern martial arts schools will tend to look similar in the future, there will still remain aspects of diferentiation. For instance the jodan mawashi tate kubi geri will remain a trademark of Kyokushin Karate but for what concerns the rest, the training will be very similar to other modern Karate schools.

Kyokushin Karate was the first step in the evolution of Karate. One of Sosai's core ideas was precisely to combine the best elements of several martial arts in order to refine his Karate. However because of competition rules set in the mid 70's, the training became limited and things only began to change in the 90's with the rise of MMA and K-1. Now he have more Kyokushin fighter with Kickboxing/Boxing and Ju-jutsu skills, that is, more well rounded Kyokushin fighters.

We also need to remeber, that is was the competition between Kyokushin Karate and Muay Thai that lead the japanese to realize the importance and effectiveness of the low kicks in real fighting.

With that said, i guess whether we like it or not, it's competition that forces martial arts to evolve.


And yes, i really like MMA but i think i still prefer K-1.

[Lonewolf]

Sonik, OSU! I agree with you that Kancho Matsui really needs to keep the "Ichigeki Matches" going on a regular basis. That way, aspiring Kyokushin fighters who wish to compete in either the Kickboxing(K-1) or MMA format can get experience before going up against the top professional fighters and being outclassed.
I have respect for all types of martial arts. I think I was again misunderstood when I said you don't see fighters from other Karate styles fighting in K-1 or MMA. I was talking about repesentatives of these styles with no cross training only competing using the traditional discipline they have been taught. In the early stages of K-1, I saw Tae Kwon Do's World Champion enter K-1 and he got anniliated in the first few seconds of the first round by hard low kicks from a fighter. He was a big man, but he was not conditioned and had no power. So, that was the point I was trying to make, not trying to put down anybody.
OSU!

[JohnMc]

Originally Posted by sublimo

Idem ditto.
Sansou: Chung le,
Kempo: chuck liddell
TKD: Pat Smit, Tapilatu
Wing Chung: Emin Boztepe ore eeh???
Ashihara: Sem Schilt
Judo: a lots hidehiko yoshida 4 ex.

Is Semmy Schilt really Ashihara? I've always heard him referred to as the Seidokan Cyborg.

I don't think Boztepe has ever faught professionally. Unless you count jumping old men from behind.

[sublimo]

Originally Posted by JohnMc

Is Semmy Schilt really Ashihara? I've always heard him referred to as the Seidokan Cyborg.

I don't think Boztepe has ever faught professionally. Unless you count jumping old men from behind.

LOL!!!

But indeed Semmy is Ashihara not seidokan. It is just for commercial purpose that he use the seidokan Gi before entering the ring.