Japanese Jujutsu - Cross Training Opinions?

[smoothsake]

Recently my dojo has been allowing a traditional jujutsu instructor conduct classes on our off nights. It turns out that a local gym no longer wanted to offer this jujutsu from practicing there due to possible legal liability issues. So, last night I stopped by to check it out and watched as the sensei destroyed 3 of his students. The class wasn't as structured as what I am used to with Kyokushin, but I can see the effectiveness of the style. There is little sport application (i.e. no rules or limitations) just pure self-defense with intent of disarming and dismantling an opponent. I liked what I saw and can see how it could definitely link up with the striking that we all seek to perfect through Kyokushin.

Now coming from IKO1, this is the exact opposite. No federation of dojos, no competition, and no branding. It is a small ryu of masters who practice an art from what he tells me has been passed in his family for generations. The sensei is former law enforcement, military, and today owns a private security firm. I can't vouch his claims of experience... nor his teaching credentials... but here's the kicker... he's only going to charge me $5 (I think per month) because he's using our dojo and promised to take care of all current Kyokushin members.

I was floored! That is a super deal. Of course I'm going to need a thicker gi...

So I think this is a great cross training opportunity. Any opinions? It's $5!!

[MilkManX]

Take it!!

I took some Aiki Jujutsu and it was great.

The joint locks are tricky at first but you will get the hang of it.

[vapor]

I don't see how you could turn down that offer!!!

Even if it is $5 a session, that is a deal and a half!!

vapor

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by smoothsake

So I think this is a great cross training opportunity. Any opinions? It's $5!!

When I hear about only a few members, and that the instructor "destroyed them", I'm cautious. When I know that they were kicked out due to potential liability due to injury issues, I'm downright careful.

I know nothing about the specific lineage claims, but I'd be sure to check them out before starting training. You don't need someone twisting your head around the wrong way because he got the picture from the book wrong...

Osu!

[tmd]

I training in a couple of different schools of Jujitsu and can vouch for both it's effectiveness and its marrying up very well with Kyokushin. But I am with Dent here too, it is a dangerous art if practiced badly as it works on very easily injured parts of the body (hence it's effectiveness ).

As with all MA Classes before you join watch a class - if it starts as all should with the basics, lots of break fall practice and limited application of technique then fine - they should show you the full move but get you to practice it in stages - so you can learn where the bite point is. If he's throwing newbies across the room before he's even taught them how to land save the $5.00 as it'll cost you a lot more in the long run, I knew what I was doing but a couple of nasty falls and over zealously applied neck locks have left me with some long term unfathomable injuries.

[JARAD]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

Recently my dojo has been allowing a traditional jujutsu instructor conduct classes on our off nights. It turns out that a local gym no longer wanted to offer this jujutsu from practicing there due to possible legal liability issues. So, last night I stopped by to check it out and watched as the sensei destroyed 3 of his students. The class wasn't as structured as what I am used to with Kyokushin, but I can see the effectiveness of the style. There is little sport application (i.e. no rules or limitations) just pure self-defense with intent of disarming and dismantling an opponent. I liked what I saw and can see how it could definitely link up with the striking that we all seek to perfect through Kyokushin.

Now coming from IKO1, this is the exact opposite. No federation of dojos, no competition, and no branding. It is a small ryu of masters who practice an art from what he tells me has been passed in his family for generations. The sensei is former law enforcement, military, and today owns a private security firm. I can't vouch his claims of experience... nor his teaching credentials... but here's the kicker... he's only going to charge me $5 (I think per month) because he's using our dojo and promised to take care of all current Kyokushin members.

I was floored! That is a super deal. Of course I'm going to need a thicker gi...

So I think this is a great cross training opportunity. Any opinions? It's $5!!

Osu.

japanese jujitsu was created during feudal japan when striking forms of martial arts were no longer effective againts armored men. its intent was to kill its apponent. fuedal japan was over the desire to train in this form was still great, but they did not want to down play its lethalness by turning into a sport. Judo was created as the sport of jujutsu to solve this problem.
then along came the Gracies who created there own style of jiu-jitsu as a sport style. long story short, if you are used to watching bjj, then japanese jujutsu may look brutal to you. if you want a hard days training i say go for it.

[smoothsake]

Update: I have done jujutsu a couple times now and it's fun.

Btw, research tells me the Gracies actually learned from a Japanese-Brazilian judo master so what they have is a modified version of judo, not jujutsu.

[JARAD]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

Update: I have done jujutsu a couple times now and it's fun.

Btw, research tells me the Gracies actually learned from a Japanese-Brazilian judo master so what they have is a modified version of judo, not jujutsu.

I stand corrected, it is a modified version judo, which was originally refered to as Kano jiu-jitsu.

[ANTSAN]

I read somewhere that it's very difficult to come accross Traditional Japanese Jui-Jitsu schools these days, even in Japan. It's almost one of the forgotten arts, if this is the case I'd definately jump on board. I do believe sosai himself said karate without at least a fundamental base in grappling is not complete.

Osu.

[TRK]

I am coming from the other direction-training in Aikido and Japanese jujutsu all my life, and now looking for cross training in a striking art with sparring. The more I think about this, the more I think that something got lost in MA when it left the battle field. A complete martial artist knows grappling and striking equally, and probably even weapons (not to mention bare-handed defense against weapons). If there are schools that teach that complete package, I am unaware of them. So cross-training is the way to go, IMO.

[Martin H]

Crosstraining in jujutsu is good.
The only question is the quality of the jujutsu. Very little of what is marketed as "trad jujutstu" is traditional jujutsu -most of it is aikido+judo in a attempt at recreating trad jujutsu. On top of that, some have become too formal to be realistic, and an awful lot of it is Bullshido taught by mcdojo jokes. Sadly, the avarage quality is very low.
But $5 a lesson will let you try a few out to see the quality of this particular one first hand. There are some very good JJ guys out there.

Lets not forget that Sosai did both judo and aikijutsu -and that oldschool kyokushin selfdefense (all to seldom seen today) is basically straight out of daitoryu aikijutsu.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by Martin H

The only question is the quality of the jujutsu. Very little of what is marketed as "trad jujutstu" is traditional jujutsu -most of it is aikido+judo in a attempt at recreating trad jujutsu. On top of that, some have become too formal to be realistic, and an awful lot of it is Bullshido taught by mcdojo jokes. Sadly, the avarage quality is very low.

Yes, quite true. As I understand it, real Japanese JJ should do training vs an armored man, as well as a number of smaller weapons.

Osu!

[shinobijesus]

Originally Posted by smoothsake

Btw, research tells me the Gracies actually learned from a Japanese-Brazilian judo master so what they have is a modified version of judo, not jujutsu.

this is true.

[tmd]

Not sure if I could tell what is 'real' Jujutsu and modified judo - all I know is I did several years of effective Jujutsu and found that this, blended with my Kyokushin and a few interesting bits and pieces I picked up over the last 25 or so years see me through most circumstances.

I am one who considers the 'most fights go to the ground MMA propaganda' to be just that, an effort to promote their art - but JJ is highly useful and knowing what a JJ guy is likely to do just as useful

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by shinobijesus

this is true.

Technically true.
Mitsuyo Maeda (1880-1941), who taught Helio Gracie (and also did a demo at he white house) was a kodokan Judo practicioner. But he started out as a Tenshin jujutsu practicioner.
He was well known for his practice of techniques banned in judo.
MAEDA

[shinobijesus]

im aware he started in Jujutsu. all of the top students Jigoro Kano worked with to create Judo all came from seperate Jujutsu schools and so did most of his top students that got into Judo after it was formed. for a while anyway.

regardless some crosstraining will help anyone. wether its a somewhat traditional Jujutsu, some underrated Judo, or some brazillian form, knowing what to do if you end up on the ground is important. just as important as knowing what to do when you are standing in front of someone.