Creatine Question

Fede88 · 05-25-2007, 02:53 AM

What do u guys think about using creatine for karate..its really true that has secundary effects?? any experience??
OSU

rsobrien · 05-25-2007, 04:20 AM

For karate...meh.

For gaining absolute strength, yes awesome. Very safe.

Also, this probably belongs in the nutrition forum.

kakatootoshi · 05-25-2007, 08:56 PM

The pros and cons of using creatine is being discussed in this thread:
http://www.kyokushin4life.com/forums...ead.php?t=2783

OSU!

Fede88 · 05-27-2007, 04:52 PM

thanks!
osu

koji112091 · 05-27-2007, 10:30 PM

I heard that it is ok if you know the limits but some of my freinds have freinds that use it and they had some problems because of not useing it properly.
I thought that most karate-kas would not use it but I have no openion on the subject.
All I know is that you can not get strength whithout work. If all it took to became skilled is to drink something then becomeing strong would not be as extaordinary.

Osu

Bloke · 05-28-2007, 11:21 AM

Fede88

I have moved this to the nutrition forum where it is more appropriate.

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 06-08-2007, 05:03 PM

creatine supplements will make you cramp during hard workouts. save your money and trash the supplements. eat good food and you'll get the nutrients you need. the supplement industry makes billions of dollars on falsehoods.

osu

Spirit · 06-09-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHIDOKANATLANTA

creatine supplements will make you cramp during hard workouts. save your money and trash the supplements. eat good food and you'll get the nutrients you need. the supplement industry makes billions of dollars on falsehoods.

osu

Quite correct...
I have said in many times Organic, organic, organic.
You are only 100% health if all of you IS health!!!

A-jay · 06-14-2007, 10:07 AM

Creatine is already in your body so it is 100% natural.
It's common sense that you get cramps from it with a wrong diet ( which a lot of amateur karateka's have)
Creatine absorbs water, which means your body has less water to transport to muscles.

**Shokei Marcsui** · 06-14-2007, 06:08 PM

A-Jay

We've been through this whole 100% natural debate. It's spanned from creatine to red bull.

It's all up to interpretation. Do what you feel is right. Bodies react differently than others.

I used to take creatine but it just made me gassy. Although I attribute that feeling to the type of creatine I was taking.

Welcome to K4L.com! OSU!

Spirit · 06-15-2007, 01:09 PM

Creatine supplemants are not natural they are synthetic big differance!!!

One must understand synthetic produce anything does not work the same in the body as natural produced items IN the body.
Nothing syntheticly made by man can equal the bodies natural process or natures process... what you get from wild or organicly grown fruit veg, that you don't get from mass produced fruit, veg, that are full of pesticides, herbicides, growth hormones, fertilizers and other chemicals.

simple example
white willow bark is what asprine is based on, yet white willow powder does not have the negative effects to your body as asprine does. Why synthetics can't match nature...

seienchin · 06-15-2007, 02:47 PM

Hmmm...let's think about why we do karate...is it to get big? Maybe, but weights training would be a much more effective way of doing that. Is it to learn to hit hard...probably, but quite honestly - boxing will teach you that, and quicker than the 5 - 7 years that Kyokushin takes (Mas Oyama used to say 3 years the stance, 3 years the grip, 3 years the punch...so he reckoned nine years!!!).
No - I am not posting in the wrong place. Gimmicks (and in my opinion, is creatine is largely a gimmick, and most positive effect is placebo) have no place in karate, where we are training to tap the awesome power of our own chi. there are no shortcuts. The ONLY secrets are sweat and the mental discipline of achieving a zen-like state of no-mindedness. Training, discipline, dedication will kick the ass of any number of tons of creatine, any day (and any other garbage supplement you care to name). Do you think Sosai dosed up on supplements before he fought bulls?
Don't get me wrong - aggressive management of your diet is important, but that falls into the discipline part of the equation.
Donate the money for the creatine to fight war crimes in Darfur. then get back to training. The true benefit of karate training lies in trainign your mind, for when you body begins to fail (as we all mortals must), you will still have the calmness, discipline and mental unassailability that you developed from...karate..not from eating powdered supplements.
Osu

Spirit · 06-16-2007, 12:04 PM

Learn to hit hard???
I don't think so.
Learn not to hit at all!
Sorry for getting off the track.

Seienchin,
The rest of your post was excellant, I would like to add!!!!!!!!!

seienchin · 06-16-2007, 03:03 PM

Why thankyou JapMan - and may I say, Amen to that...or in this forum, it should be OSU!.

Aunty Ichigeki · 06-17-2007, 08:09 AM

Just to even up the debate ... I'm a huge fan of creatine & pop it like candy.

I'm (for the moment) over-worked, stressed, don't get enough sleep, for the most part avoid processed food like the plague but frequently miss meals. I'm lucky to make it to training once a week right now so without creatine training aint much fun. If I was a better person I'd find time for food & training, I'd age gracefully & pay my penance for not training enough by suffering the pain & exhaustion but with creatine (Kre-alkalyn actually, a synthetic variant that's the perfect ph, has no side effects & doesn't require loading) I can really enjoy the few sessions I do & savour every last minute. I can run further, do more pushups, more kicks, more rounds and feel fresh & full of life at the end of class. Uncle Ichigeki has the same awesome results... it could be our advanced years though (as the body generates less creatine as you get older)! I do believe there's a placebo effect & practice using visualisation towards the same end if I forget my fix but it's simply not the same!

seienchin · 06-17-2007, 12:17 PM

Hay Auntie - good to see that things are not one-sided. I know all about real life impinging on our ideals. Sigh. However, you are at least honest in calling it a "fix". And therein the rub. I am of the opinion (as you may have deduced from my earlier postings) that the main value in martial arts training lies in training the mind. Sure, the method that we use to do that is training the body, but ultimately, what differentiates Karate from aerobics is the mental toughness, and this is the gift that my Karate training has given me.

so...I ask you this. Is taking creatine helping to train your spirit? Is it an embodiment of the fighting spirit of Kyokusin? I can't answer that for you, but I have a suspicion that it is not. The struggle would be greater without it. The determination required to prevail would be greater, and the ensuing strength would have come entirely from within yourself, and could be tapped whenever you needed it, not whenever there is a jar to hand.

Guess I'm just old-fashioned.

Osu

Spirit · 06-17-2007, 12:37 PM

Yet another great post by seienchin!!!

A-jay · 06-17-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jap man

Creatine supplemants are not natural they are synthetic big differance!!!

One must understand synthetic produce anything does not work the same in the body as natural produced items IN the body.
Nothing syntheticly made by man can equal the bodies natural process or natures process... what you get from wild or organicly grown fruit veg, that you don't get from mass produced fruit, veg, that are full of pesticides, herbicides, growth hormones, fertilizers and other chemicals.

simple example
white willow bark is what asprine is based on, yet white willow powder does not have the negative effects to your body as asprine does. Why synthetics can't match nature...

Some supplements may contain more than only creatine, but those are mostly cheap creatine supplements made in China.
PURE creatine is something the body already has and with the proper process you can put it in supplements.
Medicines on the other aren't always based on just 1 ingredient.(Hence the side-effects)
I'm not a doctor though

And thanks for the inspiring post seienchin.
I also think protein supplements do not substitute willpower.

Aunty Ichigeki · 06-19-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seienchin

so...I ask you this. Is taking creatine helping to train your spirit? Is it an embodiment of the fighting spirit of Kyokusin? I can't answer that for you, but I have a suspicion that it is not. The struggle would be greater without it. The determination required to prevail would be greater, and the ensuing strength would have come entirely from within yourself, and could be tapped whenever you needed it, not whenever there is a jar to hand.

Osu

Love it! You're a very good mentor. I guess the next best thing to having you in the dojo is going to be having you on K4L!

I've thought about it a lot & you're absolutely right I haven't trained Kyokushin to further my mental conditioning in years. I absolutely did when I started Kyokushin and have aquired what I guess I deemed somewhere along the line an 'acceptable level' because I know I'm mentally tougher (at least in terms of performance) than most students in our dojo. But if I'm honest with myself 'most students in the dojo' should not be a shodan's benchmark!

I've been enjoying Kyokushin in recent years not for the conditioning or spiritual training so much as for the exercise, the art, the science and the reward of coaching and not in any small part because I love promoting the style to others (infecting kids & adults forever). I guess I've been happy enough so long as I can perform a nice looking kata, demonstrate a flash high kick (though the hips are going), tag a few people in sparring and provide coaching and advice if I can.

I guess I knew on some level that I was failing to challenge myself so I jumped in & did the Women's Worlds earlier this year but in a way that's just paying lip service to the real thing. Interesting to think that the ultimate fighting challenge is not 'the real thing', of course 'the way' is the real thing.. but then I'm with Sosai in that I don't think the way means a lot without the fight so I have a lot of respect for fighters even if their way is not perfect. I have a lot more contemplating to do on this one. I appreciate the challenge.

seienchin · 06-20-2007, 12:43 PM

Osu Auntie...sooooo glad you were not offended.

Of course, all the other things that you love are important and valuable, perhaps none more so than inspiring others to love their training. But for me, personally, the cards I have been dealt mean that my physical capacity is failing, and the battles I fight are with my own body, and with my own mortality. That is why, for me, the mental budo has started take prominence, and I am realising what a precious gift I have been given. This clearly impacts on the flavour of my postings.

I have so many stories that I could share about using my karate outside the dojo, and only 2 of them relate to in a physical sense. I am studying at present for a really, really big exam, and I am in study group. We gather after a 10 hour day at work, and study for the exam.

Just tonight, my colleagues asked me how I do it. How do I retain my mental focus and ability to think and react quickly at a point when we are all exhausted? The answer is obvious to me, but they think I am weird when I tell them it is all because of my karate training.

I have a very successful career, and I have not one jot of doubt that if I had not taken up Karate when I was 20, I would be just another ordinary worker. THAT is what is so cool about karate. If you let it, it will teach you far more than a system of physical fighting. To quote from the mottoes of Mas Oyama: "Always remember: in the martial arts, the rewards of a confident and grateful heart are truly abundant".

OSU

Sponsored Links