Another Ashihara karate question - Page 2

Azimuth · 08-09-2006, 08:03 PM

Check out this promo video from our club .
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90967196926393

Osu

**smoothsake** · 08-11-2006, 08:08 AM

Excellent video! I cannot tell from this video any differences between Kyokushin. Can someone explain any significant differences? Either way, fantastic demonstration. Osu!

**sokaiya** · 10-08-2006, 03:54 AM

Does Ashihara have a World Tournament of their own?

Azimuth · 10-08-2006, 04:58 PM

There is a tournament in Danmark each year around easter
The Sabaki Challenge Spirit Tournament
that's considered as the world championship

here is the site but it isn't updated since 2003 ; (
http://www.sabaki.dk/sabakisite2003/

Nix · 10-10-2006, 08:28 PM

Osu!

As the lot of you have already pointed out, Ashihara concentrates on kumite, and to move around the opponent, out of the impact zone, and into a better position. We also allow grabbing and throws. We don't have any traditional kata's, but kata's that has the same basic system, with different themes, such as Kumite, Nage etc.

I'm somewhat shocked to find out I'm on the internet, though. Meaning I'm on the video from Næstved, Denmark (the Ashihara vs. Kyokushin one) It's a movie with fighters from my dojo. Also, the one with the Sabaki rules, wherein some of my friends is in. :S They didn't know that it existed on the web either, hehe.

Here is a movie clip from last saturday, at a tournament called 'Russia vs. the World', where the best Russian fights against the best non-russian in diffferent styles. http://youtube.com/watch?v=BIS7JC1Uuak

If you want, I can post some more Ashihara clips.

[EDIT: This is a movies from the Sabaki Challenge Spirit '97, the annual World Cup tournament held in Viborg, Denmark. Enjoy.

http://www.ashihara.dk/media/146/video/SCS97action.mpg ]

Nix · 10-11-2006, 02:14 PM

I stumbled upon a great Ashihara video on the German Ashihara site. Enjoy!

http://ashihara.de/downloads/Best%20...uts%202002.rar

Byakuren · 10-26-2006, 09:46 AM

Very interesting to see how much our style ressembles Ashihara in the "hard" part. Maybe our Kancho had contacts with the late Master H. Ashihara? Who knows? Next April I'll see Kancho again and I'll ask about this matter.

Regards.

Osu!

Azimuth · 10-26-2006, 10:27 AM

Keep us updated Byakuren -san

Osu

Dobbersky · 10-27-2006, 12:39 PM

My respects always. I am unsure as to the similarities as I have not seen Kyokushin except on Eurosport as competition, there are no Kyokoshin Dojo near me, so attending one is hard. I was told by someone from another forum I am a member of, that the Ashihara Kata are similar to the Kyokushin Advanced Kata. I wonder if anyone would be able to agree, disagree or confirm, also if there was a link, (not youtube) that I could view these advanced kata, that would be great.

Osu

K1cker^ · 11-02-2006, 05:56 PM

Osu

I'm training Ashihara Karate. The only differences between Ashi & Kyoku:
1) We use throws and take down techniques
2) We got different kata's
3) We got another point system during kumite

It's much like the same

( but I prefer Ashihara.. cuz it takes much more strategy in the kumites, when it is legal to throw ;b )
___________

^ K1cker - Ashihara RoxXx

Nix · 11-14-2006, 09:30 PM

Kancho Hideyuki Ashihara was a student of Kyokushin Kancho Masutatsu Oyama. When he earned the title of Shodan, he opened his own dojo, and gradually developed Kyokushin, untill he founded his own branch in 1980. It is very similar to Kyokushin, but it has it's differences. Kyokushin is more true to it's traditional roots, whereas Ashihara favours logic and circular movements, to preserve the force of the opponent and use it against him. We also move more to the sides in Ashihara, where Kyokushin moves in a straight line (bluntly put).

But, as k1cker^ said, the kumite rules are also different, as we allow throws and takedowns, and our semi-contact rules allows harder contact. I must say that I dislike the Kyokushin point system. In Ashihara, we fight untill one opponent has 8 points more than the other, whereas in Kyokushin, it's the first to 1 point. Also, instead of having waza'ri (½ point) and ippon (1 point), we have ippon (1), nihon (2) and sambon (3). I've also noticed that the penalties isn't recorded the same way, as in Ashihara, the opponent is awarded points if you break the rules more than once.

Hope you lived through my little rant.

Lucy · 11-14-2006, 09:37 PM

I guess thats why kyokushin is 'knockdown' survival of the fittest lol! Hence why we dont work so much to points. Its all about the KO

Nix · 11-15-2006, 07:03 PM

From what I've experienced, it's not harder to get points in the Kyokushin ruleset. I find the rules annoying, since the a fighter might lose the entire bout, because his opponent got his lucky punch. Even though he is 100% ready to fight on.

But I have some credit to the Kyokushin-fighters that I forgot to mention in my last post: They generally seem to be in a better condition than the Ashihara fighters, meaning they don't get exhausted easily. That is why we always have to concentrate on technique and the KO, when we fight them. If you have to fight a kyokushin-fighter several rounds in a row, you will most likely lose (generally speaking). Kudos!

I believe the Ashihara standard match goes for 3 min + 1½ min if hikiwake, then hantei = 4½ min.
Last time I fought at a kyokushin-tournament, it was 3 min + 2x2min = 7 min.

Perhaps the Kyokushin train after that worst case scenario (7 min), even though their fights are generally shorter, because of their point system?

Azimuth · 12-30-2006, 09:42 PM

Ashihara Russia training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lslw5...elated&search=

yoshukai · 04-03-2007, 09:11 PM

What is the difference between Ashihara and Enshin Karate? It seems to me that the tournament rules for the two styles are the same. Perhaps this is because Ninomiya was a student of the late Kancho Ashihara.

orisha66 · 04-04-2007, 01:04 AM

Myself, i think its all kyokuyshin. all were students of Sosai. By the 70's, you can see in the old tournaments that each blackbelt had their own style of fighting. They were already working on individuality, their own style. espacialy with the ashihara group. I think Ashihara was the 1st to walk away,...or was it Kurosaki????

shinaido · 04-04-2007, 07:41 AM

Ithink the first who walk away was Tadashi Nakamura and make Seido Karatebut i can be wrong

Martin H · 04-04-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshukai

What is the difference between Ashihara and Enshin Karate? It seems to me that the tournament rules for the two styles are the same. Perhaps this is because Ninomiya was a student of the late Kancho Ashihara.

Yeah, Ninomiya was second in command in ashihara kaikan from the moment Ashihara and Ninomiya split with kyokushin 1979, up until Ninomiya himself broke out from ashihara to form enshin 1988.

As I understand it (from what Ive been able to find, but I have not been able to get my hands on any formal set of rules from either group), the main difference is that in ashihara you are not allowed to grab and hold. You are allowed to grab, but you must combine it with a more or less immediate technique or throw. In Enshin you are allowed to grab and just hold, although with one hand only. Then ofcourse there is differences in the scoring system. For example you get points for throws and sweeps in enshin, but in ashihara you only get it with a successful followup. in enshin you get MORE points for a sweep/throw with successful followup, but you also get points for just a sweep/throw.

Also, in Enshin they have a round fighting area, while in Ashihara it is still the same square one as in kyokushin :-)

Martin H · 04-04-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinaido

Ithink the first who walk away was Tadashi Nakamura and make Seido Karatebut i can be wrong

Several smaller groups broke away from kyokushin before this, but the first major name (exept Bluming who was expelled by Sosai in 1967) to break with kyokushin was Tadashi Nakamura or Kenji Kurosaki. Both left Kyokushin in 1976, but I dont know exact day or month.
However. Kurosaki by that time had already stopped teaching kyokushin in favour of kickboxing for several years (staying on as a advisor), while Nakamura was the official kyokushin head instructor sent to the US.
Katsuaki Sato was next in 1977. The real bad years was 1979-1981 (Shigeru Oyama, Yoshiji Soeno, Takashi Azuma, Kazuyoshi Ishii, Hidenori Ashihara, Joko Ninomiya and many others)

Nix · 05-10-2007, 10:07 PM

Sounds like Martin H got is spot on, regarding the differences between Ashihara and Enshin. In Ashihara, you are allowed to grab the opponent, but must release him within a few seconds. Continuous grabbing without a follow-up will be penalized.

Ashihara is an off-shoot from Kyokushin, and Enshin is an off-shoot from Ashihara. Enshin uses the Sabaki-concept developed by Kancho Ashihara, but relies more on throwing techniques seen in for example Judo and Jiu-jitsu.

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