Another Ashihara karate question

[Fire!]

What makes the style different from the original kyokushin karate? Any differences in kumite rules? osu

[Groucho]

form Wikipedia (more succinct than I am...)

The style is partly based on Hideyuki Ashihara's studies of Kyokushin Karate, but, includes many original techniques that he himself developed and taught. Often referred to as "fighting karate" by its practitioners, it is known for its emphasis on practical techniques, the employment of circular motions to move to the outside of the opponent's attack, and a "hard contact" approach to training. The core curriculum of techniques is known as the Sabaki Method, which involves controlling the opponent by moving off the line of attack and combining defense and offense into one.

[Martin H]

ashihara is very similar to kyokushin. In technique it is basicaly identical. But they teach a lot of throws, and in their competition they allow grab and pull, and throwing, in a way that kyokushin competitions strictly forbidds.

They also focus on circular footwork and strategy (sabaki).
Very nice stuff, although I am not sure I agree that it was invented by Ashihara and that it did not already exist in kyokushin. Ashihara DID focus on it, and develeope it into a comperhensive system.

[kakatootoshi]

I agree on the idea of some people that early splinter groups of kyokushin were not venturing into aspects of martial arts not developed by kyokushin, but they simply were retaining those elements in kyokushin that were wiped out during the formation of the current tournament culture.

OSU!

[Groucho]

As a student of both, I'd say that they are more alike than they are different (any Blackadder fans here?...they're 2 vaguely dissimilar things in a pod...(paraphrased))

Kancho was originally teaching Ashihara as Kyokushin, politics reared it's ugly head and a split occurred...my sensei, yondan in both, likes to say Ashihara is the first branch off the Kyokushin tree...

Anyway, to ridiculously oversimplify, I'd say that at it's essence Ashihara is Kyokushin for counter fighters...where the classical Kyokushin attack is to come ahead like a tiger and tear the opponent to bits, in Ashihara you move out of the direct line of attack, then pounce like a tiger and tear the opponent to bits...

[killer_kicks88]

do they grab the gi like in enshin?

[Lanky Sempai]

I think Ashihara is the same as Kyokushin with respect to grabbing.
As the primary focus of the training is Sabaki, it is more focused on moving/avoidance and the maintenance of ma ai rather than grabbing your opponent and closing range that way.
Though I could be wrong it, has happened before.

[alan]

Originally Posted by Fire!

What makes the style different from the original kyokushin karate? Any differences in kumite rules? osu

If I go back to the original question. You state original kyokushin, back in the days one was allowed to grab in kyokushin copmetitions as well so the differences must have been even smaller back then....?

[killer_kicks88]

Originally Posted by Lanky Sempai

I think Ashihara is the same as Kyokushin with respect to grabbing.
As the primary focus of the training is Sabaki, it is more focused on moving/avoidance and the maintenance of ma ai rather than grabbing your opponent and closing range that way.
Though I could be wrong it, has happened before.

well that was why i asked, cuz enshin is based entirely on sabaki

[Martin H]

Ashihara does allow grabbing and pulling, but not to the extent enshin does.And where extended pulling can be seen in order to try to take the opponent out of ballance.

According to this ashihara rules walkthrough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29iHRlSLUwY

The rules forbid "pushing or grabbing the opponent without attempting futher techniques or throws"
In kyokushin, as you know, any and all pushing or grabbing is forbidden -followup technique or not.
I am not sure is the "full rules" since they also talk about a 3 point system (in part 3 of the video, links are in given in the above link), but it is a system used in NIKO ashihara kaikan.

[Bloke]

In the Early 90s Hanshi Steve Arneil and the IFK experimented with a one second grab rule. You could grab for one second and follow up - for example grabbing someones sleeve to turn them and throw in a hook to the exposed ribs or grab the head and pull it down for the knee. I saw it in one tournament and there was an increase in the number of KOs. It was dropped shortly after but not necessarily for that reason.

[Iwaks]

Ashihara katas are different

[Groucho]

Originally Posted by Iwaks

Ashihara katas are different

True, totally different...much shorter.and fewer of them

geared toward direct application

[ibuki]

can anyone upload an Ashihara Kata?

[jmkdavid]

I train Ashihara.

I can try to upload a kata later. All the katas are different. We do not have any traditional katas. Our katas are more like fighting-combinations and we usally train them with an uke. Enshin is allmost identical to Ashihara exept for new (and not as many) katas... he did not change much whem he founded Enshin.

Don´t have time to write more right now but I´ll be back...

[ibuki]

Originally Posted by jmkdavid

I train Ashihara.

I can try to upload a kata later. All the katas are different. We do not have any traditional katas. Our katas are more like fighting-combinations and we usally train them with an uke. Enshin is allmost identical to Ashihara exept for new (and not as many) katas... he did not change much whem he founded Enshin.

Don´t have time to write more right now but I´ll be back...

Please be back with some kata videos uploaded
OSU!

[Azimuth]

Here a link to a competition video from Danmark
Ashihara vs Kyokushin
Looks like they had a lot of fun ; )

http://www.ashihara.dk/media/146/vid...ved%5F2005.mpg

[Fire!]

Originally Posted by Azimuth

Here a link to a competition video from Danmark
Ashihara vs Kyokushin
Looks like they had a lot of fun ; )

http://www.ashihara.dk/media/146/vid...ved%5F2005.mpg

Thank you for the video osu

[Azimuth]

Here for the intrested a few more Ashihara clips
http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/ash...aki/keiko.html

http://www.ashihara.dk/default.asp?id=4967

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgmdz...ed&search=kata

Osu

[Martin H]

nice! thanks!
(and wellcome to the forum btw).