Ashihara/Enshin/Kyokushin Versus Muay Thai/Jujitsu/Kickboxing

[Dobbersky]

Ohio Gazimashita Sensei-san, Sempai-san,

Please note, this is, by all means, NOT being disrespectful to other styles. As part of our DOJO KUN is to respectful to ALL styles of Martial Arts.

Does anyone have any links to bouts or competitions where this type of senario has occured where Ashiharaka/Enshinka/Kyokushinka are predominately the victors. In the UK, Muay Thai/kickboxing guys tend to be underestimate our type of 'knockdown' Karate.

Failing that has anyone got a good story to tell about their own particular experience of competing with the 'other' styles be it MT, KB, JJ, BJJ or other Karate ryu.

Osu

[ojgsxr6]

Originally Posted by Dobbersky

Does anyone have any links to bouts or competitions where this type of senario has occured where Ashiharaka/Enshinka/Kyokushinka are predominately the victors. In the UK, Muay Thai/kickboxing guys tend to be underestimate our type of 'knockdown' Karate.

See the problem I see with this is that despite what people might say, MT, and kyokushin etc. are so similar that it doesn't even matter who wins. So in that particular situation it boils done to the person and their training. The Kyokushin etc. guys who compete at that elite level aren't training in kata and lines drills in Sanchin, and kiba dachi. They're training doing bagwork, padwork, etc which is training much like the elite level kickboxers.

[anarki13]

ojgsxr6 is correct.
also, regarding Jujitsu/Grappling (which appears in your thread title but not in the thread itself) well.. at least you have to learn how to defend against them..
who would do better? a pure grappler against a pure striker? depends who lands the first shot

i suggest that you incorporate some grappling/defense in your regimen as well as karate, so as to become a good all-round in all areas of fighting.

[Dobbersky]

Guys

You're absolutely correct, when you take kata out of the picture, then there is not much difference at all between the arts. with regards to the 'Grappling though, the kata we train in daily have Grappling or anti grappling techniques

For me Karate is Ashiharakai and Wado Ryu, the blend is quite good as Wado Ryu is part Jujitsu for grappling/groundwork, and part Shotokan as taught to Mas Oyamas O Sensei

[ojgsxr6]

Originally Posted by Dobbersky

with regards to the 'Grappling though, the kata we train in daily have Grappling or anti grappling techniques

Ok, you'll probably never see someone beat a legit Judo/Brazilian JJ/Sub Grappler, with any grappling that's trained through kata and especially antigrappling kata.

[Martin H]

Kata does have grappling and anti-grappling, but it is rudimentary and not supposed to be effective against a expert grappler. All kata are designed for quick and dirty streetfight situations against relatively untrained thugs, not drawn out fights/duels vs trained martial artists.

But that is a side thread better suited for the kata forum

On topic:

There has been many knockdown fighters who has been successful vs thaiboxers. Many knockdown fighters going pro (and therefore switching to kickboxing) has taken major muaythai titles. Andy Hug & Peter Smit to mention two.

But events where knockdown fighters are predominately the victors??

Knockdown fighters tend to fight knockdown events, where thaiboxers tend to lose the few times they enter.
Thaiboxers tend to fight thaiboxing events where knockdown guys need to adjust, but tend to do well when they do.
In kickboxing, thaiboxers have less adjustment to do than knockdown karate guys, and there are more who try -resulting in more thaiboxers who are successfull.

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by ojgsxr6

See the problem I see with this is that despite what people might say, MT, and kyokushin etc. are so similar that it doesn't even matter who wins. So in that particular situation it boils done to the person and their training. The Kyokushin etc. guys who compete at that elite level aren't training in kata and lines drills in Sanchin, and kiba dachi. They're training doing bagwork, padwork, etc which is training much like the elite level kickboxers.

Yes and No, it really depends if they are training with a muay thai trainer or not, or have at all. What I have seen happen is that Pettas, Filho, Feitosa(for instance)trained with Maurice Smith and Kirk Jensen in the late 90s(in Bellevue, WA, I used to fight on Maurice cards where all 3 would be present), who are legit kickboxing trainers. Through them they trained with Saeksan Janjira and probably other Muay Thai trainers. In turn through experiencing some training they teach other Kyokushin karateka, kickboxing and some muay thai but mixed with Kyokushin. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying I don't really consider it similar to Muay Thai.
I'm also not sure about a Karateka's ability to easily cope with transitioning to Muay Thai/kickboxing, more so than a thaiboxer's ability to be able to transition to knockdown karate competition. I think the only way this could be accomplished if the knockdown karateka trained in some type of kickboxing or MT for a while before entering the fight. The times I have seen a thaiboxer enter a knockdown event and lose they didn't get hurt at all. There defense was superb but the muscle memory they had for combinations usually dealt with face punches.

[Budo-kai]

Originally Posted by anarki13

ojgsxr6 is correct.
also, regarding Jujitsu/Grappling (which appears in your thread title but not in the thread itself) well.. at least you have to learn how to defend against them..
who would do better? a pure grappler against a pure striker? depends who lands the first shot

i suggest that you incorporate some grappling/defense in your regimen as well as karate, so as to become a good all-round in all areas of fighting.

Yeah, that's Kyokushin Budo kai.Kyokushin+Judo+all what you bring from diffrent martsal arst,closed circle(complete warrior)

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

in order for anybody to compete in another discipline successfully, he has to train specifically for that event. if a basketball player wants to play football, he has to learn to play football. if you fight a thai fighter, you better train muay thai. if you fight a grappler, you better train in grappling first. i recommend that an athlete train at least a year in order to be comfortable with a new skill set. as far as a karate vs. muay thai, karate vs. bjj, etc., the karateka will have to use a completely different skill set than just karate.

[fighting spirit]

every thing can be reached it depends on ur fighting spirit, it is up 2 u, to be stubbern, and follow the never give up theory.....lol u will either get injured or u will be the best.......( i got injured but tht is my way of karate)

[bushido spirit]

i agree about what fighting spirit said tht it depends on the fighter , but i also point out that the hardest thing is a guy with any standing fight style to take over a bjj fighter unless he gets him knocked down on the 1st strike, cuse once u get down on the ground ur in the bjj ZONE.....