Goju-Ryu Vs. Kyokushin

[likkuid]

Hey, this is going to sound weird - I know, but I need help so that's why I'm posting lol.

I want to take Kyokushin Karate, but my dad keeps emphasizing I take his style (Goju-Ryu). Goju-Ryu has NO-CONTACT sparring (tournaments have no contact either, apparently) and this is not what I want. I'd like to take Kyokushin because I prefer the style much more than Goju-Ryu..plus you can spar FULL-CONTACT (what I want). My dad thinks its beneficial to spar NO-CONTACT because you can learn control (kick someone max. velocity but stop inch away from their face). I rather be able to learn how to take hits so you can actually stand up in a fight, etc..plus it seems boring to me NO-CONTACT, you can't really test certain skills I'd think (like arial kicks).

Anyways, I want to try and get my parents [I'm 16] to allow me to take Kyokushin, because I think once they find out it's full contact they'll say no (they're fully against Muay Thai [what I take now] and one of those reasons is because you spar..with padding..so just imagine Kyokushin lol).

Anyways, if possible, it would be really helpful to me if you pointed out differences between Kyokushin and Goju-Ryu. I searched both on Wikipedia and read all of the stuff, but that didn't help me much. I'm aware Kyokushin is based on Shotokan and Goju-Ryu, but I want more info than that to 'sell' my parents. I'd also like to know for myself, as well (just in case this Kyokushin place I'm checking out has poor teaching).

So..what are the differences between the two? What are the pros and cons (comparatively)? I understand that most of you think Kyokushin is better than Goju-Ryu..but why? I'd like to know, please give full explanations and support [if possible]. If you don't want to, you don't need to type out a long post, any..any help would be much appreciated and valued.

Thanks,
Kyle

[ichigeki31]

hi there kyle i would like to tell u about your problem with ur parents i would like to help u with the diffrence between kyokushin and goju but it will look like i am disrespecting the other style so i will just stick to parent problems ok.i am 17 years old right now i started kyokushin when i was 14 or 13 but any way my parents were also worried because i used to do tkd which is in no way full contact but i used to do a full contatc korean martial art called hoi jeon moo sol but any way dont forget that there is an intructor who knows what he is doin and how to help you to get used to full power attacks.just try sitting with your parents and talk to them about your desicion and ask them to think about it and tell them that thsi is wat you really want thats all i have to offer it worked with my parents well atleast with my dad my mom still has her doubts heheheh and sorry if this doesnt help ,osu!!!!!!!

[Shokei Marcsui]

My dad thinks its beneficial to spar NO-CONTACT because you can learn control (kick someone max. velocity but stop inch away from their face). I rather be able to learn how to take hits so you can actually stand up in a fight, etc..plus it seems boring to me NO-CONTACT, you can't really test certain skills I'd think (like arial kicks).

I can relate to this and that is usually the "excuse" of benefits that people give when they take a martial art that utilizes the no-contact sparring. Previous to kyokushin, I was in shotokan which had the no-contact sparring that was point based. It was good and all, but unfortunately if you train yourself to kick at full speed with constraint, most people (including myself) will do the same in an emergency situation. There is a huge difference of feel between kicking someone and kicking THROUGH someone. Speed and control can be taught, but it is important to train to kick THROUGH the target utilizing the punching bag. This can be taught with our without taking a full contact martial art.

So..what are the differences between the two?

One is full contact one is not. I believe Goju-ryu uses a lot of circular movement and is based partly on chinese kung fu.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

The use of "soft" techniques in Goju-ryu reveals an obvious influence from the Fukien White Crane style (known as "Fujian Bai He" in Chinese).

I understand that most of you think Kyokushin is better than Goju-Ryu..but why?

Well you should answer this yourself. Obviously we love kyokushin. Why? We all have different reasons. You seem to have an interest in it, so go with that, suit up, participate in a few classes, and come back and tell us WHY you love kyokushin.

I want more info than that to 'sell' my parents.

To "sell" your parents, i'd pitch something like this.

*ahem*

Although kyokushin is a full contact karate, by no means does a sempai, sensei, shihan or any other instructor by any other title expect you to be able to withstand a full out kumite on your first day. The moment that you step into the dojo you are trained to be able to withstand the type of activites required for successful practition of this martial art. To fully understand kyokushin, one must observe the various teachings of the founder Mas Oyama and his philosophies. "Ichigeki Hissatsu" literally means one strike, certain death. This application when used in cooperation with kyokushin basically means to endure, persever, and succeed in any task confronted with. This transfers into your everday life in school, work, and relationships thus building a stronger, more confident YOU! Being the best that you can be (ripped off the Army), striving to reach your full physical potential is what kyokushin is all about.

[ojgsxr6]

likkuid, first I would try to take Kyokushin covertly, then when you reach a level in Kyokushin that you can handle yourself, I would challenge your father to a match, when you beat him ask: Where's your Goju now? Or you can let him know fighting isn't always full contact at younger/lower levels, they'll have you pad up, at least shin guards and a helmet.

[Shokei Marcsui]

Originally Posted by ojgsxr6

likkuid, first I would try to take Kyokushin covertly, then when you reach a level in Kyokushin that you can handle yourself, I would challenge your father to a match, when you beat him ask: Where's your Goju now? Or you can let him know fighting isn't always full contact at younger/lower levels, they'll have you pad up, at least shin guards and a helmet.

I don't think fighting will solve the matter. You have to understand that the Goju practioner IS the father. Showing how brutal and "physical" kyokushin can be might be adverse to what his dad wants. OBVIOUSLY since he is in goju he is into the traditional feel of kata, basics, and the ART part of martial arts. FURTHERMORE again he is the father. Challenging your parents only shows defiance, neglect, and disdain for their efforts to keep you safe. Show some responsibility and talk to them about it.

Rationalize with your parents. Inform them that the kyokushin dojo is a safe, controlled environment and that ANY physical martial art (contact or not) possess the possibility of sustaining injury while practicing.

OSU!

[likkuid]

Wow, thanks guys =) I was laughing when I read responses, you guys are funny haha. But yeh, what you said helps and I'll definately use it =)

ojgsxr6 - Equipments not allowed at one dojo near me; at the other it's OPTIONAL to use VERY light shin-guards. Jocks, in both dojos, are allowed of course. I'll wear a mouth guard as well (don't wanna mess up my teeth )

And yeh, I'm not fighting my dad LOL.

My dad's taking me to check out one KK dojo this Thursday, and the other on Saturday morning =) Looking forward =)

Thanks,
Kyle

[ojgsxr6]

Originally Posted by likkuid

And yeh, I'm not fighting my dad LOL.

At least you got my joke.

[ichigeki31]

good luck with that lilkuid .osu!!!!!
by the ojgsxr6 that was funny heheheh.

[Groucho]

Hey, Kyle

good to see you found the forum, was gonna tell you about, but I guess I forgot...

Kyokushin places a great deal of emphasis on contact, but you can assure your parents that it isn't full contact from Day 1. You will be lead gradually to being able to withstand the demands of fighting knockdown rules...

I mean, thinking logically about it, pounding the snot out of white belts would serve only to make all by the masochists quit, and to pretty much eliminate any chance at learning. Your Dad is probably worried that you'll get hurt, because he's never done knockdown fighting...even though Goju-ryu has it's own very healthy tradition of knockdown fighters in the Yamaguchi Goju-kai.(Couldn't hurt to bring this up...)

On Saturday, let your Dad talk to the sensei...he's likely had to deal with worried parents before, just make sure Pops listens with an open mind.

And if all else fails, there are worse things than to study than Goju 'til you're 18...

[Aunty Ichigeki]

I'd make the point with your Dad that the ability to throw great techniques, however fast and well controlled is less than 1/3 what you need for a fight. Noone's gonna stand there & take it - they're going to hit you back. 1/3 is about training yourself physically to take the shots and 1/3 is about training yourself mentally! When you first start getting hurt your brain goes into panic mode & you're useless but in Kyokushin we train our brains not to panic when we're taking big hits. At Kyokushin you'll find out it's actually really hard to hurt somebody that's trained to fight - I find non-contact stylists may be under false illusions in that regard (hopefully not insulting anyone - I also think that's true of Kyokushin people that only spar and never enter tournament)

[likkuid]

*I still want to take Kyokushin much more than Goju-Ryu*

Checked out this KK place on Danforth (place near me) today. I spoke to the sensei a few days prior and he told me they would be open on Thursday. My dad and I drove half hour today to get there and they were closed..pitch black inside and in front of the dojo was all this police CAUTION tape with a GARDEN thing in the center..It's too far, anyways, so I'm not going to this place. Since we were in the area we went to check out my dads old Goju-Ryu place. We met my dads senseis son and he gave us some good info. The place is nice, small (very personal I would think) and I had a great feeling about it. The head sensei is a 7th dan Gojen and is the president for Goju-Ryu in Canada - he is also Canada's most senior Goju Ryu practicioner. He was president for a few other associations as well. He's been training/teaching for 35 years and was taught by a 10th dan Gojen. They have classes set aside for white-orange belt, and then higher levels, etc. etc. The son of the sensei (also a black belt) told me it's very personal and for the first few weeks, as a new student, he would set me aside and do 1-on-1 training with me. They, however, have no-contact sparring (as previously mentioned). OK, so I rather take Kyokushin, but this Goju-Ryu place seems so amazing to me (like such a fantastic dojo).

I'm checking out the other KK place near me..hopefully Saturday morning. If the teaching there is not good I will go with this Goju-Ryu place and try to get my dad to allow me to have a heavy bag at home (by saying I'll do Goju-Ryu if I get the bag) so this way I can practice kicking THROUGH something..opposed to the controlled sparring they have there.

Well, basically - one KK place is a no for sure, other I'm still going to check out - and the Goju Ryu place seems like the perfect backup. It's very cheap as well, $500 CAD a year and that includes a gi. Classed MON-FRI, 2 beginner classes/week.

ONLY prob with Goju Ryu place is that 1 of the 2 beginner classes is the same day as 1 of the 2 beginner classes for this BJJ place I wanted to go to..so if I went to Goju-Ryu, I don't think I could go to BJJ (1 beginner class/week for $85/month isn't worth it).. But, nothings for sure yet :P

=)

[im.aho]

Originally Posted by likkuid

*I still want to take Kyokushin much more than Goju-Ryu*

Checked out this KK place on Danforth (place near me) today. I spoke to the sensei a few days prior and he told me they would be open on Thursday. My dad and I drove half hour today to get there and they were closed..pitch black inside and in front of the dojo was all this police CAUTION tape with a GARDEN thing in the center..The place itself looked like pretttttty bad.
=)

Dude, you went to the wrong location. I know the place you are talking about and the Kyokushin dojo moved a few storefronts down the Danforth. This is the proper address 170 Danforth ave.
Monday and Thursday Evenings from 8:30 to 10:00 PM
Saturdays from 4:30 to 6:00 PM

Also, you cannot judge the instruction based on the place itself. Not all dojos are nice and shiny, but they have some of the best instructors in the world.

[Bloke]

Originally Posted by ponchoflash

Also, you cannot judge the instruction based on the place itself. Not all dojos are nice and shiny, but they have some of the best instructors in the world.

Thats so true. When I started training we trained in a hall out the back of a Pioneer Club in Dublin and when it rained the roof leaked and all the whiet belts were literally standing in water. The place smelled and in winter it was often warmer outside than in but it was one of the best places I have ever trained - talk about spirit!!

[likkuid]

It had caution tape everywhere LOL.

Oh man, if only I walked a little farther down - oh well. Wait..was it that samurai place?

Anyways, it's too far to go - dad said he wouldn't drive me that far and it would take farrrr too long to bus. Hopefully this other KK place is good.

[Groucho]

See, if you could only make it to Richmond Hill...

Anyway, won't find too many Kyokushin McDojo's (like none), so don't worry the other place will likely be just what you need.

Weird that Dad would drive that far for the Goju club, huh?

[im.aho]

Originally Posted by likkuid

It had caution tape everywhere LOL.

Oh man, if only I walked a little farther down - oh well. Wait..was it that samurai place?

Anyways, it's too far to go - dad said he wouldn't drive me that far and it would take farrrr too long to bus. Hopefully this other KK place is good.

yes, they are now temporarily training in that samurai place.

[likkuid]

OMG, that's why! I saw that place and was wondering why it was so close to anohter Marital Arts place. I thought the samurai place was it but it didn't say Karate, thought it was something entirely different.

Well, I'm happy. The Judo dojo my friend goes to is free, and my friend said he could drive me every time. I had no idea he got his G2 liscense..and what's even better is that he lives on my street! Transportation was my main concern for judo - but looks like that's not a problem anymore!

I rather take BJJ but that's about $1200/year - and Ineed to save my money for university =0

Anyways, I'm going to Judo class Tuesday and Kyokushin tomorrow morning I believe

Oh and Groucho, my friend says his judo club is only accepting new members now (people with no or barely any judo experience). They have too many blackbelts and are rejecting those with such high rankings to join the club. My friend said a few days ago they turned away a bunch of black belts because they have too many as is. Anyways, I don't know how much judo experience you have - but thought I'd let you know.

[im.aho]

where is this judo club that is for free? :O

[likkuid]

http://www.scarboroughdojo.ca/

Agincourt Recreation Center, 31 Glen Watford Drive, Scarborough

-----

Went to Kyokushin class this morning. It was 9:30-11 am. They usually have 8-11:00 am but they said they stopped for a little while, they might bring that back. ANYWHO - it was good. Reallllly personal. There was the sensei (4th degree black belt) his daughter (something black belt) and this brown belt student, about 3 white belts..and then me. The higher level students help you at certain times so it's good. Turns out the other Kyokushin place near me (this one on Danforth), the sensei there is the STUDENT of the sensei of the place I went to. The Danforth guy was expelled from Kyokushin by the sensei of the place I went to (can't remember why..he did something). The sensei I was with told me that this Danforth guy was a terrible fighter (lmao) and tried to steal his students when starting his own dojo. When he was expelled he branched off and started up his own thing. The 4th dan sensei said you learn bo staff at about green belt (earlier if you go to summer camp) and other weapons they will only teach you if they are suited for you. There's 6 weapons in total. He also doesn't give out belts unless he thinks you deserve it, the place is traditional - not commercialized like most dojos/gyms nowadays. Anyways, I really like it there - very friendly/personal, etc. I'm definately signing up next class (Wednesday) - looking forward

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by likkuid

I'm definately signing up next class

In that case: Welcome to the family!