Kyokushin Tournament Question....

[Shokei Marcsui]

Hypothetically speaking....

If a kyokushin dojo or kyokushin promoter would like to create a local knockdown tournament:

What is necessary to start a knockdown tournament?

Any thoughts or personal experiences are welcome as well.

[kyofighter]

fighters are a must have ...haha

[kakatootoshi]

Starting a knockdown tournament is all about venue, time and people.
Obviously you need to book a veune first. It may be the school hall of a elementary school to a local stadium, all depends on the scale of your tournament and budget.

As for people the most important are obviously fighters, spectators and sponsors. Advertise your tournaments months ahead by contacting other schools, putting up an ad in your local martial art magazine, internet forum or whatever. You can raise money for the tournament by contacting various sponsors, and allow them to put their logos in the tournament programme, banner or even setting up small information booths outside the venue. You can of course use this chance to advertise your school (or even sell some souvenirs or hotdogs - why not?) as people may become interested in learning martial arts after watching tournaments.

Is it going to be an openweight event? If you have a lot of people from other styles and also many beginners the I suggest you have 3 to 4 weight categories as this seems "less intimidating" and more people will be willing to join. Does it also have categories for ladies? Depending on the level of fighting, bout time, use of protective gear can all be adjusted.

On the tournament day you need lots of people to help out(just what I can think of):
1)move the mats
2)annoucer, time-keeper
3)referees
4)enbu section/demonstration of legal/legal techniques
5)trivial tasks from cleaning up the blood on the shiaijo to playing the entry music (or singing the national anthemn, like in All-America).
6)people who know cpr and lots of coldpacks and stuff

But after all, the quality of fighting (not necessary like WT or national, but you simply cannot allow bunch of untrained bums to beat the daylight out of each others. Fighters do not like it, spectators do not like it and the reputation of your tournament will go down) is most important. Train hard!

And check out the local law, as I know in some places you need to get papers before you put up a tournament.

OSU!

[Shokei Marcsui]

Good one, Sempai Kyofighter!

Besides the obvious: Fighters. Referees.

What do you need to run a local knockdown tournament?

Tournament Operations:
Insurance for accidents? Hiring employees to operate certain functions? Looking for sponsors for the tournament? Etc Etc.

Tournament Tradition:
Where can you find kyokushin tournament protocol and specifics? Mat type, ring size?

*edit*
Posted before i saw Kaka-san's posting. Very informative

[ojgsxr6]

I think a user here called nycfightnights is trying to set up a knockdown tournament in NY. If I remember correctly you're in Texas, so I think they may be a little more lax with competitions. I would also check gyms and venues that currently put on kickboxing shows in you area. Maybe they can be a better help.
Also if you're in Texas, possibly contact Andrew Budd, he's an Enshin instructor and from what I remember some of his students are looking to compete.

[kyofighter]

Shokei ...
have you ever been to a kyokushin tournament ?
if not I suggest you to find one and learn from it...or maybe you cab find someone who has some experience with tournaments...
Start small , like a local event with some friendly dojo fights , that way you can simulate a tournament , judging , protocol , etiquette , stuff like that...

[Shokei Marcsui]

Hypothetically: It would be something small and open to all martial arts utilizing Kyokushin style tournament rules. There are some kyokushin branches in North Texas and West Texas and an enshin school in Austin. Not to mention the "Crotty" dojos in and around Houston.

Divisions:
- Open weight for the Blackbelt division
- Middle and Heavyweight for Semi-Contact
- Children's division.. maybe.

If there were enough response for women's I would do it. Don't know how I would be able to poll something like that though.

*edit*
The main reason for my question was that i've been actively looking for a local tournament within driving distance and have not been successful. Most of the "larger" or more publicized tournaments are on the east and west coasts of the US.

I've never been to a tournament and would like to be able to participate in one that does not involve a plane ticket. I'm sure that others in the area feel the same way. Kyokushin just isn't as big "event wise" in Texas as it is California or New York.

I beleive that there is a strong demand for a tournament like this in the Southern US, but there is no supply to fulfill it.

[Spirit]

Can I suggest an altenative to this...
Start with an inner dojo tourney, this will give you a chance to get the experiance of fighting K/D (judging, time keeping, etc also). If you run it as required you will see the holes in your planning and then you can work to correct those areas. Also it will give you a chance to see if this type of fighting is what you really want to do.

Then the 2nd one (inner dojo tourney) open it to the local dojo's... This will again help you with seeing if you have the rules down and understand them to run a tourney.
Also try doing 25 man fighting at the dojo, this to will give you the experiance of K/D as well the high of sparring....

If you can go to AAU or NKF tourneys they are usually run very well (do to the rules and cert judges) .
Go to as many tourney in the area as you can and see how things run and how they handle the issues. Talk to the directors and everyone you can see if K/D is something that they or their students are looking for or would go to. Remeber, 1 in every 20 people say they will come, will come (on average). Make sure their is no tourney 2 weeks before or after yours dates are important to.....
Tourneys are not easy to run, big or small, there is more to them than you think and experiance is very important. I've been to over 100 (as competitor, judge or running them) and I learn something new or see something new every time.
Planning, planning, planning then plan sum more.
International airport and hotels as well prize money and fees for the judges you'll need to bring in (if you do K/D).
Marketing and name of tourney is also big issues, being able to handle all the differnt countries that wish to come (you will be surprised on this one).

Not trying to bring you down, but thier is a lot of things that you many not have thought about.
Thier is nothing worse than a poor run tourney. People don't forget something like that, I mean for years!!!

Good Luck and plan

[blackdog]

Osu,
Just do it.
Bren

[kyofighter]

I agree with Jap Man.
Osu

[kakatootoshi]

Dear Shokei Marcsui,
My best wishes if you have decided to start a new tournament. But I have some questions to ask you. Is it your Shihan is going to start a new tournament and you are going to help him out or you are going to start a tournament by yourself? In starting a Kyokushin tournament, reputation is most important. In Kyokushin we gain reputation mainly by seniority/lineage, tournament success. Please do not misunderstand that I am underestimating your ability to organize a successful event. But you have to understand that when people join a Kyokushin tournament, they would like to find out which organization and which Sensei/Shihan are behind it. If you have never fought in a tournament and do not have a high enough rank, you cannot blame people for being skeptical when they see your tournament poster. And if anything goes wrong with your tournament, people may associate that image with your school and association. So before you start a tournament, I suggest you to at least try attend other tournaments to "get a feel" of it.

OSU!

[Shokei Marcsui]

I am just hypothetically assessing what it would take to start up a tournament.

These were just questions, thoughts and ideas that I have. I wanted to ask people on the forum what it would take to run a small to large tournament.

All of these questions were from asked from a business standpoint and not as a promotional tournament for my school.

Do tournaments have insurance for accidents?
Hiring employees to operate certain functions?
Looking for sponsors for the tournament?
Where can you find kyokushin tournament protocol and specifics?
Mat type, ring size?

I actually have fun creating budgets for different projects hypothetical or not. It's the accountant in me.

[kyofighter]

Usually with the kyokushin tournaments the organizer loses money , or if he is lucky breaks even.

[Spirit]

Do tournaments have insurance for accidents? YES
Hiring employees to operate certain functions? NO usually volunteers [though judges may be paid if you bring them in]
Looking for sponsors for the tournament? YES
Where can you find kyokushin tournament protocol and specifics? Honbu or a high dan that knows ALL the rules
Mat type, ring size? Ussually 24' X 24' though can be bigger or smaller. Flooring that is in the gym (hard wood or rubber flooring) renting mating will be way to expensive

[koji112091]

Is there any prize money? I love the fact that most kyokushin karate-kas will fight for other reasons. However I read something in a Mas Oyama book about professionals not needing a second job because they compete in public tournaments. Thoughts?

[andy83]

Fighters.
Referees.
Sponsors (important).
A middle budget.
Middle capacity hall.
Patience.

[Nix]

Shokei,

Some of the things you ask depends on the laws in your area. For example, I doubt that insurance is nescesarry in Denmark, or even most European countries - some tournaments wants the individual fighter to have one, though.

- Officials are usually voulenteers. They take care of points, time-keeping, setting up the mat, etc.
- Referees can be voulenteers or hired.
- Sponsors are not a nescessity in Denmark, but I suspect it is in Texas if you have to pay a whole lot to rent a hall.
- Prize money is not nescesarry, but medals and pokals are. They can be bought fairly cheap, and still look good.
- You need basic equipment, such as scoreboards, a clock, a bell, furniture, referee flags, kumite belts, protective gear such as a helmet if required by law and preferably a tatami - otherwise you need to make the bout area with tape. Make sure you get a tape that you can get off the floor again. Ask the hall manager.
- Tameshiwari equiptment and boards, if you plan to use that.
- If paying spectactors are nescesarry, you need to advertise. Fighters can be attracted simply by e-mailing their dojo.

If the classes and divisions are good, you'll have a lot of good fighters. If there is no lightweight class, don't expect many lightweight fighters. Basically I would go for 3 weight classes for men, and two for women, divided into an amateur division and an elite division. Some tournaments state that divisions and classes will be made after they have received all entries, but this might turn somebody away. I also advise you to set a minimum required grade to compete with the knock down rules.

Rules regarding etiquette, penalties, mat size etc. can be found the official WKF site.
Kyokushin knock down rules can be found on the British Kyokushin site. Google is your friend.

[hasbeen]

i would always have a doctor on site, it may cost but if anything did go wrong?

[Bloke]

Hasbeen is of course correct - a Doctor is an absolute must. All fighters must have a medical beforehand and you will also need adequate first aid coverage for each mat area - having an ambulance on stand by is aslo a good idea and perhaps informing the local hospital of the event may also help speed things up in case of an emergency.

[seienchin]

And might I say, not just any old doctor. It really needs to be someone who is accustomed to officiating at contact sport events, who actually knows about concussion/ head injuries, on-the-mat assessments. These things are not standard fare for many doctors, and if you want to do more than just have a token doctor, it is worth seeking out one of the people who do rugby, boxing etc.

I would also caution against having a doctor who is a kyokushin practitioner, unless they are quite senior in either their rank or their profession. They can get role confusion. They are there to be a doctor, not to encourage budo, nor to be beholden to their sensei! Keep it separate, and you won't have role clashes. YOu want a doctor who will absolutely put the safety of the fighters first, and who will be assertive in pulling a fighter ou