getting beatin by a blackbelt

[dethhead]

osu!
a while ago my shihan told us about the rules for when your sparring with a black belt and one of them was if you get backed into a corner that you cant get out of then you say something.
well i forgot what it is.
anyone help?
thanks.
osu!

[ksan]

Osu

A Blackbelt should always be aware of his own abilities when he fights a kyu grade. Just say Yame or stop. That ought to be enough....


Osu

Ksan

[Martin H]

Never heard of any such rule or such word, although yielding and aknowledging the others "win" when backed into a corner is always a option, wether vs a blackbelt or not. Sparring is not competition or life and death streetfight -you wont learn much by huddling up in a corner acting punching bag without defense. But you get more respect by fighting your way out.

Maybe you mean "yame" which just means "stop", or "Mate" meaning "wait"?

[Spirit]

As a rule (in our dojo) the fighting tempo is lead by the lowest rank in the match. If you wish to fight harder you just do and the B/B will (should) follow your tempo.
The unwriten rule is that a B/B WILL hit you as hard as you try to hit them, but no B/B should just beat on a student, unless the student is a bully who uses their size etc on other students then fair play is at hand.

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by jap man

As a rule (in our dojo) the fighting tempo is lead by the lowest rank in the match. If you wish to fight harder you just do and the B/B will (should) follow your tempo.
The unwriten rule is that a B/B WILL hit you as hard as you try to hit them,

Side note, I have seen people who have just not understood that unwritten rule and tought the BB increased power was a encouragement to fight even harder. With predictable results.

But yes. it is the job of the higher belt to adapt to the opposition. Any BB can defeat a newcomer or lower belt (although there is always the competition minded guys that focus on competition without grading for years, and has much more experience than their belt might indicate), but what would be the point?

[ksan]

Originally Posted by jap man

unless the student is a bully who uses their size etc on other students then fair play is at hand.

Even then the instructor should be the one to take action (talk to the bully)... going hard on the bully will only lead to the bully going harder on others again (because he got beaten by a stronger fighter, so why shouldnt he do it to someone else who is less strong than him? And so negative circles rise).

Osu

Ksan

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by ksan

Even then the instructor should be the one to take action (talk to the bully)... going hard on the bully will only lead to the bully going harder on others again (because he got beaten by a stronger fighter, so why shouldnt he do it to someone else who is less strong than him? And so negative circles rise).

Osu

Ksan

Sorry Ksan, nothing personal but I disagree, I think it is the responsibility of the senpai's to handle these things or matters. I expect my asst instructor to keep the rules in place, it is part of their training and learning to be a balanced instructor, by handling issues and interacting directly with students in all manners be it helping out with learning basics, kata etc or dealing with rules. It is important that as a senpai you learn to deal with these issues.

I often start a sparring match off by fighting everyone in the class and announce to the new students "the unwritten rules" as well the standard rules of combat.
If you have been in a few sparring matches in the dojo, you should know the rules!!If a student does not follow the rules and happens to be a bully to weaker etc students no matter the rank, they learn the rule the old fasion way!!!
I read a story about a sandan who came to class, he had been away from train for a while, and a nidan worked him over during sparring (taking advantage of his time away from training). A few weeks or so goes by and he (sandan) is teaching the class, he calls out the nidan to the floor to sparr and beats him.

[ksan]

Originally Posted by jap man

Sorry Ksan, nothing personal but I disagree, I think it is the responsibility of the senpai's to handle these things or matters. I expect my asst instructor to keep the rules in place, it is part of their training and learning to be a balanced instructor, by handling issues and interacting directly with students in all manners be it helping out with learning basics, kata etc or dealing with rules. It is important that as a senpai you learn to deal with these issues.

I often start a sparring match off by fighting everyone in the class and announce to the new students "the unwritten rules" as well the standard rules of combat.
If you have been in a few sparring matches in the dojo, you should know the rules!!If a student does not follow the rules and happens to be a bully to weaker etc students no matter the rank, they learn the rule the old fasion way!!!
I read a story about a sandan who came to class, he had been away from train for a while, and a nidan worked him over during sparring (taking advantage of his time away from training). A few weeks or so goes by and he (sandan) is teaching the class, he calls out the nidan to the floor to sparr and beats him.

Osu Japman,

I understand your points and i respect them.

Osu

ksan

[kakatootoshi]

Dear dethhead,
There are many quality instructors in this thread and you just got yourself some good advice. A yudansa (or any sempai) should protect the beginners. But ask yourself, do you "go hard" on the yudansha/sempai first? If you strike hard you cannot expect (unless he is the world champion) him or her to response gently. A yudansha, no matter how many golden stripe is on the belt, is after all a human being.


Dear ksan,
As for a bully in the dojo, I think verbal advice is important. But you know some people just will not listen, and I think "have them put into shoes of someone else" is important. If what you worry about (that the bully will beat up the others even more) do happen then I think the best we can do is do make sure when this bully spars, the opponents will only be people who can give him or her a really good time.

I have some thoughts on "bullying" in the dojo. "Bullying" does appear in different forms but when it comes to "going hard against kohais" I will say that the sempai should not have done that but at the same time, the kohai should not complain (unless it is done on a constant and severe manner). This is a good lesson to learn that anything can happen in kumite. Swallow the complaint and just train harder to beat the sempai (of course not everyone will think this way)!

OSU!

[Aunty Ichigeki]

We were taught to say two things during sparring to 1. acknowledge a great shot or 2. to signal verbally that you aren't coping.

Please forgive my attempt at this... I've never seen these words written down & can't find anything in the dictionary to match the way we say it! (Kiwi accent?) So I've written it phonetically & maybe someone will figure out the puzzle:

"mae-re-mashita" is said if a sempai is giving you a spanking and you can't cope / want them to drop the intensity / want to show you conceed (a bit like the 'tap' in submission fighting).

"maita" is said to a sempai or kohai who has just done an awesome technique (perhaps one that may have been an ippon if they hadn't pulled it or one that sunk in & you want a few seconds to recover). It's an acknowledgement.

[dethhead]

thanks everybody and thanks aunty ichigeki, i'll ask if that is what im meant to say. some of the other rules our shihan told us were not to wave your hand over a black belts head as that means you want to fight not rules and also if a black belt get a technique right to acknowledge it.
i think though that the rule is there in case someone thinks they can go toe to toe with a black belt but finds out that they cant.
osu!

[nzproud]

Osu! Everyone!

Mairimashita! is the proper word/sentense for this or you can alternatively say "Maitta!"

Mairimashita! is pronounced like My Le Mar Shitah.
Maitta! is pronounced Myttah!

Both generally mean "I've lost." Not a very good word to use in fight, but i noticed some ppl using this when they get winded by an attack or given a clitical shot but not hit.

Osu.

[Bloke]

As Japman said the lower grade dictates the pace of sparring. But that doesnt mean the Higher grades are punch bags. I always tell my students especially if they start to go hard to expect and appropriate response. Then they have the option of taking it down to a sensible agreed level or being hit as hard as they are hitting.

[Shokei Marcsui]

This is a tough situation to be in.

If the kid is a bully, yes I believe that it is justified to let the kyu feel some punches. A majority of lower kyu get excited during kumite and hit a little hard.

When sparring with younger or lower kyu, I work on tai sabaki movement and distance placement. I can take a hit or two and as long as they aren't swinging for the fences or trying to break a rib.

Like Japman, said it is the responsibility of the sempai in a situation like that stated above.

Personally, I have a hard time saying 'stop' during a kumite especially if i've been winded or hurt. If a technique is successful I ask the sempai how he set that up and if I did anything to create an opening?

On a side note: With the younger students... my biggest worry is protecting my valuables from punches or kicks. So I don't kick higher than Chudan.

[ksan]

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

On a side note: With the younger students... my biggest worry is protecting my valuables from punches or kicks. So I don't kick higher than Chudan.

Osu

Been there, experianced that,... now i always have my cup/box in when teaching the kids... they strike and kick from strange angles to weird places..

[Spirit]

It seems we all have come to a general agreement (is this a first??) on how to handle the bully.
I really think that this shows no matter where you train we do all see the light
OSU

[Shokei Marcsui]

It seems we all have come to a general agreement (is this a first??)

We all agree that Kyokushin Karate is the only way to go! Otherwise we'd be in another martial arts forum.

[ksan]

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

We all agree that Kyokushin Karate is the only way to go! Otherwise we'd be in another martial arts forum.

I agree

Osu

[Spirit]

Has anyone turned a "bully" student into a excellant student and yudansha???