where does my dojo stand

[blackshield]

Hi everyone, having recently started kyokushin I thought this was a good time to ask and get opinions about some aspects of the style, and particularly, the practices of the dojo I am at.

My first question has to do with Kata. I come from a goju background and as such know some of (or at least versions of) the kyokushin kata. However, in goju these kata are used as a basis from which to explore certain fighting principles and techniques. I am assuming the same is true for Kyokushin (although I have not seen any of this as yet in my club). I am curious about peoples opinions on why certain kata are included in the kyokushin syllabus when the principles and techniques the explore are not (or don't appear to be) part of kyokushin? My example for this would be Seiunchin kata, which, through my understanding is a grappling kata - it explores clinch work, takedowns, throws, locks, escapes etc... none of which seems to be relevant to kyokushin?

My second question is a bit of a political one, and I understand if people aren't interested in these sorts of isssues (I am not usually either, but being new to kyokushin I am curious as to my clubs position and estimation). So... Ithink the club is a IKO1 club... can anyone tell me about this organisation and how it may differ from some others

thanks

[Martin H]

Sadly Kata has lost its place as a teaching method for fighting skill in kyokushin.
Kata is still done, but it does not have much relation to the fighting techniques taught in the style. The connection is there, but it is just never shown.
Bunkai is very VERY rarely shown in kyokushin, and when it is, it is usually done very unrealistically, unconvincingly and superficially. The kind of stuff that requires a opponent that actively help you pull of your moves instead of actually trying to hurt you.
This is one of the reasons some prominent men like Hideyuki Ashihara broke out of kyokushin and formed new styles without traditional kata.

This is not a definite rule however. There are a few good Bunkai experts in kyokushin. Or so I have heard. I have never seen any proof of it.

Bunkai is good. But it takes too much time. Most teach the skills from bunkai directly without bothering to deciphering it from obscured, formalized and often intentionally hidden, moves in kata.
The drawback is that there are much more in kata and bunkai that what is taught as individual skills anywhere.

However, the same can be said for almost all other styles in japan aswell as elsewhere. Including gojuryu. If you belonged to a goju school that actually taught real bunkai that was not unrealistic junk, I am very sorry that you had to leave.
Good bunkai is VERY rare in karate, although some people like Iain Abernethy are doing their best to bring it back. Bad bunkai is much more common.


The main differences between IKO1 and other kyokushin organizations is that IKO1 has the ichigeki sub-organization that arranges competitions for, and teaches, kickboxing and MMA for its top fighters (not relevant if you are not planning to try for K-1 one day), is the largest kyokushin organization (= plenty of dojos if you move) and is the org that is the most negative about cooperation with other kyokushin factions (=no competing in other kyokushin groups events or even practice with member of other groups. No interaction of any kind is allowed).
In style, they have made some changes from the old "united" IKO (before the great split after Oyama died) in some of the katas. But the differences are very small. A tate tsuki replaced with a tetsui in pinan 2 and so on.
Also they are in the process of reintroducing a few kata that was removed from kyokushin way back in the 60ies (Tekki and possibly Bassai). Other than that, it is the same as kyokushin anywhere.

[Spirit]

Martin is on the money with his explaination...
I would add that the intensity of the kihon and sabaki training is the extention of the bunkai of the kata's. So less in-direct training of bunkai and more direct training of sabaki and kihon. This is why Kyokushin karateka who do kata, do it oh so well and far more effective and powerful when doing it. If you have ever seen a it done by those who take their whole karate training and use it in kata you'll will see the difference. You willl feel the power and understand its use from a distance...

As for the IKO's, well it is a matter of your taste, if you like one type of kyokushin then follow that IKO if you like the other then the other IKO.

We {KDA}, brought back Bassai Dai and Kanku Sho as well the 3 dropped taikyoku's and are discussing the bringing back the tekki's. Me personally not a fan of the tekki's (learned the shotokan way/ones)

[blackshield]

interesting points, thank you very much. I am a bit dissapointed to learn that IKO1 don't encourage, or even discourage, training with other styles... even other kyokushin schools?!! It seems strange that this would be the school that goes in the MMA/K1 route considering how much cross training and exposure to other styles helps when going in that route.

Martin H - you kind of confirmed what I had suspected about kata and bunkai in kyokushin, it does seem a rather superficial 'tip of the cap' rather than a foundation of the skills - almost like kyokushin is reverse engineering kata/bunkai to fit its fighting, rather than gaining its fighting from the kata/bunkai.

I did indeed have the priveledge in training with an excellant goju school, where realistic bunkai was the mainstay - we trained them with head gear and gumshields and full contact regularly... and often with weapons too. My instructor actaully did a 'flagship' seminar with Iain abernethy on this subject called the 'practical karate seminar' - it was a great course and the two were very much on the same page, the main differences being that Iain Abernethy seemsto prefer to explore a more defencive approach and Sensei mulholland a more aggressive approach. This may be because half of the goju club were doormen and security/bodyguard personel (as was sensei mulholland) and so the stuff was regularly pressure tested in real situations, it HAD to work because there asses depended on it! lol!