Training during Ramadan?

[Picasso]

Osu!

My very first post in here, so if I'm breaking any forum rules unknowingly, please do accept my apologies. I'm curious about what the best approach should be for a person to take when it comes to training at a time when he or she has to fast. For example, next month is going to be the holy period of Ramadan, which means that between sunrise to sunset, I'd be going without food. I've still committed myself to continue with Karate training during that month (and we do plenty of pad training and sparring at IwataDojo, which will definitely be tough). I know that I'll probably pass out a couple of times, which I know is expected at some point in my life anyway, but any suggestions on how to cope with training during a time of fasting would be really appreciated.

Arigatou,

[ksan]

There is one member here who is also very strict in his fasting during ramadan and he also keeps up his training... I know he brings in food and eats it (outside the dojo) the moment he is allowed to.

He doesnt visit the forum very often, when i see him, i will ask him if he is willing to reply to your post.

Osu

[intwominds]

Excuse my ignorance, but are you still allowed to drink during the fast?
If not then I probably wouldn't train, or at least keep training to a minimum.
If its okay to drink, keep well hydrated, maybe sports drinks if you are allowed to replenish some of the salts and minerals lost during training. I used to train while only having 3 diet shakes a day plus water (not the same as fasting I know) and I found I used to get dizzy quite often, so if it gets too bad just sit down for 5 minutes, there is no shame in that. Have a word to your sensei/sempai beforehand so they know what is going on.
Someone else would be better qualified to answer what type of foods (if you have a choice) to eat after sunset etc, but I suspect if you plan on training a lot then it would include some good quality carbs.

[Dent]

Osu!

Welcome to the Forum, Picasso. Please stop by the Introductions section and tell us about yourself.

I had a friend stay with me during Ramadan several years ago, and he is a strict Muslim. Training isn't easy for him, but his religion comes first. I suggest that you make sure that Iwata Sensei knows about your fasting, and that you are aware of your condition before participating in the training.

If you are asked to sit out from some portion of the activity, know that this is for your own safety. No point in getting knocked out, or otherwise injured during this time.

Osu!

[Picasso]

Basically, I'm not supposed to eat nor drink anything during Ramadan in the daytime- that includes water, so yes, it is really going to be tough. 14 hours of no food and drink can really have a toll on a person. My sensei already knows that I'll be fasting, so I take it that he'll go a bit easy on me. My plan is that I'll take in as much fuel and vitamins as I can before sunrise, and not expend too much energy during the day until I'm ready to train in the evening. Then after sunset, I'll drink in as much gatorade as I can. It's gonna be hard, but I'll try my best to see if it can be done.
I don't want my religious practice to compromise my Karate training, and vice versa. I believe that I can still be equally committed to both. It's just gonna be a bit rough.

[meguro]

Osu! If you are not allowed to drink water, I urge you not to train during Ramadan, unless you train after sundown. Doing something as strenuous as karate without proper nutrition and hydration compromises your health as well as the karate.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by meguro

Osu! If you are not allowed to drink water, I urge you not to train during Ramadan, unless you train after sundown. Doing something as strenuous as karate without proper nutrition and hydration compromises your health as well as the karate.

Actually, we do train after sundown. Sensei's class typically run from 8 - 10 pm, so I was planning on drinking a lot of gatorade before, during and after class.

[Nix]

In that case, maybe you could also eat a powerbar and a banana or two before practice? Something that will replenish your strenght fast, without beeing too heavy.

Osu!

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by Nix

In that case, maybe you could also eat a powerbar and a banana or two before practice? Something that will replenish your strenght fast, without beeing too heavy.

Osu!

That sounds like a great idea, thanks! On the plus side, I won't have to worry about throwing up should someone give me a strong liver punch, lol.

[IkkenHissatsu]

Well if only for one day, then Id say train BUT moderately. I used to fast in the church I went to. I would suggest meditation. You can run your katas and techniques in your mind. Its more mental then physical.Ifyou run it perfectly in your mind you can more perectly run it physically

[Nix]

Originally Posted by IkkenHissatsu

Well if only for one day, then Id say train BUT moderately.

Ramadan lasts 28 days.

[IkkenHissatsu]

Originally Posted by Nix

Ramadan lasts 28 days.

ah my bad.

[Martin H]

Move to sweden and train (or I guess alaska/norther canada will do too). By next month sunup to sundown is not that big a deal. Blink and you miss it :-D

[shokei]

Karate and Fasting
The following is an article taken from the Cyber Dojo in response to a question by Sensei Jay Collins.
To those who might not be aware of it, the Muslim community has just ended its period of fasting. There are those of other faiths (the Baha'i's, for example) who also have prescribed periods of fasting, and others who may also do it as part of their spiritual development. Has this element appeared anywhere as part of MA training? How do those CD'ers who fast combine this this with their training? What do you find are the benefits? Any hints?
I will try to give my impressions about the effect of fasting and training for the benefit of the CD. This is my personal experiences and might be a little biased to myself. I am also posting this message to the CD if you don't mind.
The following quote I received from William Hitchcock who responded with kind words to my posting regarding Eid Mubarak and my response to him.
"I believe that a person must be spiritual to be a complete person. We are encouraged to talk about religion in the dojo (not during class but when there is time for small talk). It is important for personal growth. "
I would agree with you. This month (Ramadan) is a fine example of that completeness. Fast starts at Sunrise (about 4.30am) and ends at Sunset (about 8.00pm). Kindly note that this is for S.A. and that it varies all over the world. For the past month my program has been - get up at 3.30am for a light snack and Fajr (first prayer), then off at 8.00am to help my brother in his business. Back by 2.00pm - then did some admin work- then off to the dojo at 4.30 cycling 4km there. One hour of weight training and then teach/train until 7.30pm. Leave the dojo at about 7.45pm and arrive home for Maghrib (4th prayer at Sunset) and breaking of the fast. At 9.00pm to Mosque (church) for Eshai (last prayer of five) and Tarawih (Ramadan prayer) - mosque finishes at 10.30pm. Get to bed between that time and 12 midnight. I usually used that time to surf the Net or worked on updating my site!
This meant that most times I was a zombie but the one thing that I actually enjoyed was that I could train really hard even though I was fasting. Cycling back from the dojo was very tough because by then my legs were just dead.....! It seemed to as the wind was forever testing me, blowing against me on the way home and I really had to pedal hard - specifically also to be at home in time for breaking of the fast.
It is amazing how one can do this and be able to survive. It just shows what you can do but it takes something like Ramadan ( or something similar) to show you your capabilities.
During Ramadan, more so than other times, we are encouraged to read the Quran and spend time in reflection and to do good. By fasting for this period we learn to appreciate the many people who have to go without food throughout the world and how fortunate we are. We must also mind our speech, and so many other things which normally you would not do. I've found that coupled with Religion, Karate has been so much more rewarding. The feeling that I get is like "Satori"- Enlightenment.
Having done some nutrition courses, I've learned about the value and importance of fluid replenishment. I am constantly amazed at how hard I could train without having to quench my thirst. Some of my Exercise Teacher colleagues could not understand this - "you know you cannot do that" they say. Many of my Muslim students also trained very hard this past month, so I cannot claim that only I could do it. Naturally, by the time I have to break my fast - then in that first 15 minutes or so I finish a 1,5L of Coke (yes, Coke is it! - it does wonders for the replacement of electrolytes - but it does give the odd cramp if consumed too fast on an empty stomach).
Japanese Budo has the "Shugyo"- or Austere Training. To me this was a good example of pushing oneself - whilst it may be far from Shugyo - it was "Osu No Seishin".
What was also good to me was that this month was one of the few times when I spent the whole month at home. Most months I'm travelling or visiting affiliated dojo in S.A. and other countries teaching karate or in my capacity as an Sports Administrator. This means that my training is not that controlled, because I'm teaching more than training.
Coupled with the fast, I've not only lost a few kilo's of "fat" but I also pushed my fitness level up considerably. I also worked on the Makiwara a lot. Some of my students "chastised" me as I said that during Ramadan we would have light training only. I kinda forgot that..... :-)
I spent six days a week following this program. Only twice did I have no energy to train. The one time was on Lailatul Qadr (the 27th Night of the fast - also known as "The Night of Power") when I stayed in Mosque from Tarawih until nearly Sunrise (for a special program). That evening I was dead and I just went to the dojo and supervised training. The next day I was fine again. The other time was when I had to get some work done and I worked throughout the night. If I look at the reason why - I can attribute it to lack of sleep mostly and also lack of energy - carbohydrates. During fasting your stomach shrinks so you can get by with less food and you eat considerably less which means that you have less energy resources.
What was pleasing is that in February our normal class schedule resumes and those that did not train in January will be way behind...... and will feel it!
Earlier I mentioned spending time in reflection. The art of honest self-analysis is a excellent weapon. The period of meditation which follows training (or any time put aside for it) is an excellent time to reflect on your performance. Analyse your attitude honestly for just one training session and see how much you do not know! No one else is responsible for the quality of your training. You alone carry the responsibility of yourself.
Having established a attitude of "Each One Teach One" in the dojo - I am fortunate to be able to receive "Hihyo" - constructive criticism from my senior students. This keeps me on my toes as I do not have an instructor of my own. I could not tell my training partners that I could not give as much as they could because I was fasting. No, I had to give as much or more because that is the Way of Budo! Also because I must "Lead by Example". This has only strengthened my spirit!!!
I sincerely hope that I have been able to give some insight into what I have experienced this month. Although the fast has ended, I usually do another 6 days which is then equivalent to as if one has fasted for another 11 months.
Ramadan has come and gone. I will miss it. I just hope too that even though my normal teaching schedule now resumes, that I will still be able to maintain what I started on and to build on that. Osu!
Today I finished my last day of fasting. This past six days was more difficult than the whole month of Ramadan. Maybe because I'm the only one in the house that was fasting could have attributed to that. Not having the support of family members makes it even tougher. Having meals alone was not nice, therfore I realise that the Way of Budo is easier if one has the support of loved ones. This past six days reminded me of the Ramadan I spent in the USA(April/May 1988) - in cold conditions, very little Muslim friends, no proper food (the issue of Halaal), etc. Fortunately the discipline of karate helped and I could survive.

This is the views of Kaicho Hoosain Narker of Ashihara International.

[sense]

Osu Picasso,
I haven't been on K4L for a long time.
Ksan was talking about me I hope that Ramadan wasn't to hard for you".
Because I'm one of the bonds coachs of the Ifk Netherlands I had to prepare the Dutch team for the British Open. So we had to train a lot after the holidays an during Ramadan and I also trained with the fighters. Wen the time came to break the fasting I went out side the dojo to do so.
I drinked power shakes early in the moring befor the sun came up and wen I broke my fast during night time I also drink a power shake. During the training I try to drink a lot sport drinks mixed with water, so that my body would take it.

eid mubarek

[Qieth]

Speaking from a somewhat ignorant viewpoint, i think you must consider what happens if your body cant cope with the stress. If you are able to eat just before training, because the sun has gone down, then thats great. While food will replenish your strength, water will probably be an even bigger issue. Have you considered what happens IF you pass out due to dehydration, and they will have to force liquid down your throat? How does your religion feel on that? Ofcourse, if you really passed out, maybe your fellows would simply take care of you until an ambulance comes and they will give you an IV drop - how is that?

I know that you are fasting now (or are you done at this date?), but im quite curious on the questions raised above anyways

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Qieth

Have you considered what happens IF you pass out due to dehydration, and they will have to force liquid down your throat? How does your religion feel on that? Ofcourse, if you really passed out, maybe your fellows would simply take care of you until an ambulance comes and they will give you an IV drop - how is that?

I know that you are fasting now (or are you done at this date?), but im quite curious on the questions raised above anyways

The muslim calandar month of Ramadan and the religious traditions involved, lasted from September 2 - September 30 this year, so it has passed. You do raise some interesting questions about forcing somebody liquid. I think it depends on how strictly the muslim follows the faith. A similar situation is that Jehovah's Witnesses (and other groups of the christian/judaism faith) refuse any kind of blood transfusions even in case of life-threatening emergencies. Still, some members of the faith are more flexible and would subject to it if it is vital to save a life.

[Qieth]

Sure, but if a subject is passed out, his fellows would have to act in THEIR best interest (his survival) and not HIS best interest (his religion). How might a muslim feel about all of this?

How would a jehova's widness act to being saved from a car crash with a blood transfusion when the doctors didnt know his or her religion?

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Qieth

How would a jehova's widness act to being saved from a car crash with a blood transfusion when the doctors didnt know his or her religion?

Probably bad. I would compare it the reaction a muslim might get if you told him that you accidentally put bacon in the food at your dinnerparty and forgot to tell him. It depends on how fundementalistic the devoted is, of course.