Instructor>Student relationship

[jcbel]

I agree with the others that perhaps you could have handled the situation a little differently but at the end of the day your coworkers disrespected you and your instructor by overstepping (especially when asked not to!). I think you did well not to get into a punch-up over it!

Speaking of which, maybe some dojo kumite might set their opinion straight.

[Kurisu]

Gar, looks like shihan does a good job of marketing the dojo. I see a lot of female-centric classes / seminars and I think that's one thing that a lot of Kyokushin dojos do not offer. Plus, I'm sure having a female instructor makes a lot of people feel comfortable. Kudos to her.

[Gar23]

Originally Posted by Deaken

I think I have seen your Shihan at the Rochester tournament.

Wouldn't doubt it. We were there last year and may be going again this fall. (I didn't go since I was recovering from a hip injury and was just getting back into it) Maybe this year right?

Thanks for your comments everyone. I apologize again for the personal nature of this post, but it was really starting to eat at me and i thought I would see what others would have done. For the record, this went on for a solid half hour at least. Not the biggest deal, and we are the types who enjoy conflict to an extent and take what we can from it and learn.

I did get one to agree to show up and "watch" fight night this week. (though he did throw in one last verbal jab and said he would go just to check her out) I think he'll be in for a surprise, Shihan rarely lets people in their early 20's just watch hehe.

[vapor]

How about giving your shihan a heads up that your buddy coming that night needs an attitude adjustment (without going into detail), and volunteer him for a demonstration that night!

vapor

[jcbel]

How about an ice breaking demo using his head? (Assisted of course...)

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by vapor

How about giving your shihan a heads up that your buddy coming that night needs an attitude adjustment (without going into detail), and volunteer him for a demonstration that night!

vapor

Originally Posted by jcbel

How about an ice breaking demo using his head? (Assisted of course...)

Wicked!!!! I know in her shoes, I would want to know.

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain

Osu!

I think you made a rod for your own back. It's unrealistic to expect a group of young men to revere anyone in karate in the way you do, so by reacting as you did you just lit their fuse, female or not.

Aunty - Honestly now - would you expect a group of young ladies out for a drink to talk about a 'hot' gym instructor in terms of his attractiveness or would that be similarly out of bounds?

Gary

Heck no! The girls at our club are frank in their judgement of the relative physical merits of the menfolk at the club (and elsewhere) and I've even, when outnumbered (which is quite often) engaged in similar dialogue regarding the women. But it's kinda nice when someone pulls the reigns occasionally & reminds us we're not animals.

[Aunty Ichigeki]

And Gary, no, a group of women would NOT talk that way about someone that a member of the group said was a personal friend and their teacher! It would be SICK.

Doop!

Good point kaka-san, but what I was intending to say was that this would not happen amongst a DECENT group of women...

Double doop!

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by Aunty Ichigeki

Doop!



Double doop!

Hey Aunty, don't beat yourself up! I actually don't think that a group of women you were in would behave in the way Gar23 has described. Unless I am really misinterpreting his comment about things that he couldn't even bring himself to post. That is the reason I am saying that decent people wouldn't do this about someone's lifelong friend. My impression is that the comments were quite vulgar and possibly even quite predatory. Maybe I'm interpreting it differently to others, in which event, pull my high horse out from under me and whip me....but I don't think this was in the realm of jokey banter. I have a sense it crossed a line.

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu! Aunty,

That's honest. I've always wondered why blokes talking about women are 'animals' while women talking about blokes are 'normal' I'll be very old and not at all interested by the time I understand.

Osu! Gar,

As for the ribbing. I fully understand it can be unpleasant and don't condone what your workmates put you through. I just think seeking redress through legal action is way over the top. I worked in an all male environment (except for the cook and rumour has it she shaved more often than I did) for all my working life and the humour was cruel, relentless and circular. Everyone had a turn 'in the middle' and as rescue workers are expected to turn up and keep focused at very unpleasant siuations, learning to keep cool and keep smiling under pressure was good for everyone.

My advice: If someone makes you mad at work, use it as an exercise to develop your self-control.

Gary

[Dent]

Osu!

As always, hindsight is 20-20. When I was younger, humor and Karate seemed polar opposites, and I reached the point of not talking about training at all, rather than have to deal with some of the comments from the unwashed masses.

Then I made two big changes. Firstly, I realized that life is pretty silly at the best of times, and it's too much effort to worry about it all the time. Secondly, I got better friends. Negative people are a waste of time and energy.

If you're getting some good natured ribbing, that's normal. If they are behaving in a way that is inappropriate, then your choice is simple.

Osu!

[Gar23]

Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain

My advice: If someone makes you mad at work, use it as an exercise to develop your self-control.

Gary

Osu, that's good advice and something that I really try to do. I don't avoid or shy away from anything that could be used to develop personal experience and character.

As for the co-workers in question, i've been known to be a pretty easy going person. I can take a direct insult and keep the mood light. What probably kept them pushing was that they finally found something that pissed me off. Even if it was gradual. (even if i did end it at the start by saying "yea, she's hot" or "Nope" it would have been me as well as them giving disrespect)

What I am addressing though in this post was respecting your instructor and to what point? To the point of breaking ties with people you've known for at least a little while when they decide to get too familiar with something that is intensely formal by nature? Before that? Or is there a point at all?

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu! Gar23,

I think you've just got to accept that karate and all it involves no longer automatically inspires awe and respect in the general population. Expecting co-workers to put the subject (and 'hot' instructor) off limits because they mean a lot to you isn't going to be easy, and may just get the opposite reaction to the one you desire.

I was "Grasshopper" at work throughout the 70's thanks to a TV series that was popular at the time. I just went along with it and it did me no harm - in fact I considered using it as my name on this site!

It's great you respect your instructor and what you do, but you have a life as well that needs your attention and working in a bad atmosphere is not pleasant all round. Keep smiling and deflect the comments with humour. They'll soon get bored if you don't take the bait.

Gary

[kakatootoshi]

Originally Posted by seienchin

And chatting about the hunk at the gym is very different to talking about someones lifelong friend/teacher! That to me is the distinguishing feature. If a group of women HAD done that, I doubt anyone would be saying it is OK. It would be lewd, disrespectful, and demeaning to both the participants and the target of their attentions.

Dear seienchin,
If the identity of the person being discussed (a lifelong friend/teacher) is what makes the difference, then we have to think how much this fact is made known to the others. If some women are to talk about a "hot yoga guru" at the gym I guess they have to make sure whether he is someone's lifelong friend/teacher. To me a Kyokushin Shihan deserves no more respect than a gymnastics coach. But I will not bow in Kyokushin style to a gymnastics coach as gymnastics means nothing to me. On the other hand I do not expect a gymnast to bow to a Kyokushin Shihan. But I think in the situation between discussed, predatory comments against another gender, if any, will be enough to bring about warnings or even legal actions. Whether that person carries special meaning or not should mean little in the court.

Dear Gar23,
May I know how much you think those co-workers know about the special meaning of your instructor and Kyokushin to you? In your first post you said the comments were "too disrespectful to Kyokushin to state". You did not state the incident as first and foremost a case of gender discrmination, and it made me wonder how much did the insult of "a respected figure from childhood" contribute to your resentment?

OSU!

[Kareyn]

To me, what measures the importance of this issue is your relationship with your co-workers.