Retention & New Students.

[Tameshigiri]

OSU !

I would like to heard about student RETENTION and ideas to got more students in the dojo.

[Tameshigiri]

OSU.

I will be first.

For retention in my dojo , we did a good change: Now I'm check by my self TIME for stripes test and TIME for BELT TEST.
Before students take de chance by them self, some of them take to long in each stripe and belt, and for this reazon most of them quit.
Now I supervise that and WORKS students are improving, and stay long in the dojo, also I invite students on Saturday evening for special training in special those who are not doing good during the week, or need a little help for nest test.
To got new students I'm invite people from the street, supermarket ec,to take a full month FREE and WORKS very well, after a month if they sing I know they wiil stay long in the training.

WHO IS NEXT ?

[schuyler]

I like the free month idea.

However, Kyokushin is not an easy style to recruit people too. In the past, tough guys (and girls) would be our prime targets, but are now training in Mauy Thai and Jujitsu so they can compete in MMA. MMA, at least in the States, is changing the way people look at traditional martial arts. You have the family crowd that gravitate toward non-contact TKD/Karate, the teens that are into mysticism and gravitate toward Kung Fu, and the aforementioned tough guys that train for MMA. I've seen a lot of Kyokushin dojo's that have been successful at recruiting families, but they pale in comparison to the strip mall TKD dojang.

It is my opinion that in order to recruit the 'tough' people, we need to start changing the way we train our fighters. I love Kyokushin competition, but again, people in my age group (21 - 30) aren't interested in anything that isn't on TV. Face punches are a good start, but I would like to see more Kyokushin dojo's go the way of John Bluming and incorporate Judo, kickboxing and Jujitsu into their everyday training.

[Tameshigiri]

OSU Sempai.
Thanks for you awnser.
B.T.W : Very nice web page.

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Originally Posted by schuyler

In the past, tough guys (and girls) would be our prime targets, but are now training in Mauy Thai and Jujitsu so they can compete in MMA. MMA, at least in the States, is changing the way people look at traditional martial arts. You have the family crowd that gravitate toward non-contact TKD/Karate, the teens that are into mysticism and gravitate toward Kung Fu, and the aforementioned tough guys that train for MMA. I've seen a lot of Kyokushin dojo's that have been successful at recruiting families, but they pale in comparison to the strip mall TKD dojang.

It is my opinion that in order to recruit the 'tough' people, we need to start changing the way we train our fighters. I love Kyokushin competition, but again, people in my age group (21 - 30) aren't interested in anything that isn't on TV. Face punches are a good start, but I would like to see more Kyokushin dojo's go the way of John Bluming and incorporate Judo, kickboxing and Jujitsu into their everyday training.

You're so right. Kyokushin is having an identity crisis. It has lost it's reputation as 'the Strongest'. Our club mixes with some MMA, BJJ & kickboxing crowd & I've heard Kyokushin referred to as 'that semi-contact b-s'!!!. We've decided after several years of confusion, that we shouldn't compete with those styles for the 'tough guys' because we are destined for failure if we do. We have introduced more elements of this kind of training to our dojo (sometimes headpunching, clinching, shoots & positional play on the ground) but these elements aren't in our syllabus. We've stuck them in so our guys don't become too removed from what's going on outside the Kyokushin dojo. When we started we found the Kyokushin trained people have TERRIBLE instincts... they want to maintain distance & posture when they should be protecting their vitals & tying up their opponent. They can't even fall. They're like walking skittles! By maintaining perspective and training that other stuff we hope the tough guys will see our style as more interesting & realistic (than TKD for example) & a potential alternative if they want something more than pure fighting. It gave us an interesting perspective when we met Glaube Feitosa's coach, 'Supercharge' Vemoa. He's a world champ kickboxer but he's loving Kyokushin training. He raves about the people (the more of the kickboxing/MMA crowd I meet the more I understand why) and he see's Kyokushin training as something he can sustain... it's a lifestyle and an art. Those other 'tough' disciplines aren't.

So our strategy for ending up with strong fighters in the right age group? Kyokushin has lots of kids (if we maintain a marketing strategy) and has all the goods to compete with TKD if we do our jobs. We think we need to retain the kids for longer (into adulthood) by giving them that stuff to try but also teaching them to appreciate 'pure' Kyokushin. We don't think all these extra elements need to appear in tournament because Kyokushin is a really appealing art as it is. It could appear in 'alternative' matches but our tournament fighting is great spectator sport that spectators can appreciate even with no training. It's hard to appreciate most MMA fights unless you've done some training. If you think it needs to be on TV, lets make it happen! That'll take great events, great filming & editing & wider audience appeal (we're working on the inter-style challenges as a way of creating interest & leveraging the small audiences each style has already... get all the TMA supporters together!) If TKD is big in your area... perhaps invite them to fight your guys, come up with some new rules you can mutually agree on. Start small but think big. Kyokushin's identity as I see it is as the strongest ART but only if we all keep our heads out of the sand, have a clear picture of where we fit in (so we're neither narrow minded or apologetic) and we're aggressive and professional about recruiting kids because they are our future.

[homer_simpson]

I think if we try too hard to recruit and retain students, Kyokushin will degrade and lose its identity.

Kyokushin is not for everybody. Therefore, don't try too hard to fit Kyokushin for everybody. Kyokushin at its core are hard training and frequent full-contact kumite. Any degradation to those core practices will degrade Kyokushin. Kyokushin without hard training is not Kyokushin. Kyokushin without frequent kumite is not Kyokushin.

Sosai said Kyokushin is neither a sport karate nor a show-business karate. It is a budo karate.

Osu!

[Tameshigiri]

Thanks for your reply.

OSU.

[schuyler]

Excellent responses all around. I will have more time to respond on Monday (when I'm back at work getting paid to browse K4L!)

[boldbhoy]

Originally Posted by homer_simpson

I think if we try too hard to recruit and retain students, Kyokushin will degrade and lose its identity.

Kyokushin is not for everybody. Therefore, don't try too hard to fit Kyokushin for everybody. Kyokushin at its core are hard training and frequent full-contact kumite. Any degradation to those core practices will degrade Kyokushin. Kyokushin without hard training is not Kyokushin. Kyokushin without frequent kumite is not Kyokushin.

Sosai said Kyokushin is neither a sport karate nor a show-business karate. It is a budo karate.

Osu!

Very pertinent points here. But at the same time, it's healthy to have a thread like this so we can all draw from the collective wisdom. See where perhaps we can improve. And maybe just as important, hear where others have maybe made mistakes in the past and learn from them.

[Paedde]

What about more youtube movies? A lot of Kids will see them and if we have some nice movies up there (not those body punch fights) I think we can bring some more people to kyokushinkai

I have a few ideas, I will speak to my sensei today and maybe we can do something

I'm thinking about showing the karate-do, show the stylish techniques and that stuff, so it would be possible to catch at least the youth

And another thing, I know some people who want to start a full contact Martial Art but they don't want to do face punching things because of their nose and don't want to do grappling because of the ears, maybe kyokushin could fit in here?

[Spirit]

Retention is based on many facts, none really matter about style since the vast majority of new students or parents have no Clue...
Retention is mainly based on... how well the dojo is located, dojo reputation (word of mouth from past and present students & parents), equip, class schedule, managed,great customer service, economy, (not the price of your dues) organized, and competition in the area, as well country and culture issues. Often the most expensive dojo is the one who does the best... 2 reasons, more money means that a dojo can operate with much less students and still meet their operational expenses.
Ego of the human mind, everyone wishes to have the very best and often willing to pay for it.


The fact that one fights hard in the dojo has no baring on the majority "IF" you discuss the way one is brought up to and given time to... be able to handle/learn that type of fighting.

If you look at your dojo as a tough place to bring in people then it is you (if you are the dojo owner) that is causing the problem not the style of training. If contact was a big deal then football, hockey, and other hard contact sports would not be growing in grammar schools (1st through 6 grades) across the USA!

Do more demo's, do more seminars for kids at school.
Don't do tamashiwari, and K/D sparring at demo's this will only push people away before they can understand the joy of doing it
.
Use terms and dialog everyone can understand, then teach them latter once they are your student.
Make sure that Kihons and kata are the foremost techniques new students learn, then move on to ippon, sanban kumite. Baby steps not leaps and bounds.
Remember without the basic students (who may never be K/D fighters or yudansha) you and those who wish to be will not have a place to train.
All dojo's no matter who or were (country) take in the basic student (Oyama did as well). Unless your dojo is running in the black you must take in all students and run 2 dojo's ... one for the basic students and 1 for the strong spirited students.


It is the hands of the Chief instructor and his/her instructors to be always diligent and teach every class and every person with 110% positive energy...
People come to LEARN, make sure that you are doing this...often instructors are not and thinking they are.
watch a video of several of your classes (only 1 -3 will be to Candide & you will be to aware of the camera try 1 month of taping)

You will see yourself from the views point of mind. Make sure you look at the tapes as a person who does not know about Karate, focus more on the way you talk and teach the class, how you address them etc not how well you do techniques or how well they do them.
That is for after you understand if you really are a teacher or just a person barking out commands!!!!
You will see if you talk to much or need to address talking more about the how's and why's...
Are you boring, a poor speaker or arrogant to the class??? many things will come up that you may not know about yourself.
View with an open mind to learn not to ignore......

[Tameshigiri]

Excellent!

Thank all.

OSU from the sunshine state.

[Paedde]

I talked about this subject with some people from my dojo, they meant that a few years ago a lot of people started kyokushinkai, but nowadays they rarely get new people, except kids, they stay constant

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Great post Jap-man. I love the idea of video to help instructors 'see themselves'. We probably don't focus enough on 'teaching how to teach'. You've made the point that good teachers attract & retain students almost regardless of the style (which a lot of people have no preconceptions about)!

On the same theme I would add that consistency in class is critical to retaining students... same reason McDonalds worked... they don't have the best food but you know exactly what you're going to get when you walk in the door & that works! In our experience the worst thing an instructor can do is talk too much at the expense of a good hard workout (traditional session). We try to make sure our 2 main classes each week are traditional and consistent. If Uncle forgets this and comes in teaching at too higher level students vapourize! The thinkers appreciate the content but even for them consistency rules at the end of the day. New instructors are also likely to talk too much... they want to solve everybody's problems overnight. It's a real skill to know what to pick on & what to let go.

[boldbhoy]

Osu Jap man, I agree with Aunty.
I would add, that if taping is not practical for any reason, if an instructor really wants to improve, they can ask fellow karateka that they trust to let them know their strengths and weakneses.
Ask them to be brutally honest-if your motive is to improve,
then you shouldn't be too sensitive about it.
It's very important though to highlight strengths too or confidence can be harmed long term.
Just my thoughts on it, I know I would take a lot on board from trusted friends. If I was left alone to watch tapes of myself, there's a danger of not getting a balance ie, seeing what I'm good at.
Hope that makes sense to someone. Osu!

[Spirit]

Yes aunty, structure is very important I missed adding that one as well knowing when to talk and when to discuss!!
Training above the abilities of those in the class should be marked as a challange...

Taping and asking other is not the same no matter what you ask and how they answer.

Viewing yourself is straight and forgivingly cold and truthfull... Their is no getting away from what you view as well you can view it over and over again and then compare it to other tapings weeks months latter. With tapes in hand you can see if you are pro or di-gressing...... Do you talk to much about one subject, is everyone understanding you, are you a good roll model, how well are you capturing the attention of the class... on and on the info is their in each tapping!!!

Asking other Will get their opinions on your teaching based on their mind only. Though it can be helpful, it is unreliable, often gray truth, and is often bias to their feeling { like or dislike of you}!!!

[James]

I used to train in wing chun and our Si Giung (Rick Spain), while being a great martial artist ...he won the world full contact kung fu champs in China years back, He puts a lot of effort into his marketing!

One thing ithink is great for recuiting new students, is showcasing your style and on the main page of his website he has embedded a little highlights video which does this quite well.

Here is a link to the very same video on youtube:

YouTube - Wing Chun Way

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by James

One thing ithink is great for recuiting new students, is showcasing your style

Yes it is as I stated earlier
though the big problem with demo's and new students is demo's tend to highlight all the stuff you tend Not to do in the dojo
not all the time and not all the people do this but the vast majority do
so the new student comes in looking to do all the stuff seen at the demo and bang not going to happen, a few weeks or month later gone and bad mouthing the dojo..
the sad part about this is demo's that focus on the true training rarely gain new students from it but you got to keep to the ethics of your dojo

[James]

Osu Jap man, I agree that people will get the wrong idea if you only show them things that are done rarely in the dojo, eg. weapons and fancy stuff.
Fourtunatly this is not the case in the demo i posted. The first time i entered the dojo I saw the students learning knife defence, turned out we did weapons every wednesday (school offered classes 5 nights a week).

I think that a kyokushin demo would still do well, even if you only show them regular training. Clips of sweating it out in kihon, then a bit of technique work, sparring, little close up of your knuckles on the floor doin pushups.....Then all you need is a soundtrack!!

PS: sorry I didnt read all the earlier post....I rarely do read the looong ones.

OSU!

[homer_simpson]

I personally find video clips of Kyokushin tournaments (local or international tournaments) are more inspiring than demo.