how do you start

[seienchin]

elsabra - that is exactly right! It is great that you have thought that through to a logical conclusion. You win, your Sensei wins, the students win...sounds good to me.

I was also thinking that much of the commentary in this thread is telling you how hard it is. And it is. I think We forgot to tell you that it is worth it.

I also think that there has only been a little bit of commentary distinguishing the part-time from the full-time dojo, and the risk and difficulty are very different.

My (very) part time dojo just sprang up from nowhere. I was helping my sister with some behaviour management of her kids, and the reward for a week's good behaviour was a karate lesson on Friday afternoon after school.

Then the neighbour's kids wanted to join in..Then their parents.

We moved over a period of 12 months from backyard to garage to small church hall to large town hall. I was lucky because I didn't need to earn money from it, and the hall rentals were very cheap. And it was so much fun! The karate was fun, but the opportunity to teach people a different way of thinking about themselves, of quietly believing n them, and helping them to believe in themselves, it is such a privilege.

So, learn your business, become a great instructor, and then find a place where people are hungry for your knowledge and skills.the business planning is critical, expecially if you are trying to make this a full time job. But start with little steps.

And we all expect to receive invitations to the grand opening of your dojo in a few years time. We can have a K4L dojo launch!

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by elsabra

it seems to me that the best thing to do right now is to stay in my sensei's dojo, helping him and learning from him how to run and manage the business....

Good move, but caution is needed to move forward.

First off, sit down with your Sensei and openly discuss EVER DETAIL you wish to learn from him/her.
Make sure that you discuss the boundaries of where both are you OK with when you open your dojo, i.e.

*How close to his/her dojo is OK for him/her and you.

*Are you going to get your Kyu certs from him/her and what cost for each.

*Who will run the kyu testing, you or will you go back to the dojo?

*Is their a fee to stay part or affiliated to the dojo or are you expected to join the IKO etc they are part of.

*Whose syllabus (often we seek to tweak it once we set out on our own) will they except.

So many things to ask.

I've seen (and been part off) many Sensei student fights or end of friendships over the opening of dojo

Do it but do it with every ounce of knowledge you can get.

[tmd]

Originally Posted by elsabra

dear sensei mark... i have 2 questions to ask you:
1- how can i build up a rep. while i'm teaching in an existent dojo, just helping my sensei? i mean, o.k you are building up a rep. but you won't still your sensei's students, right? so this way all your rep. will stay in that dojo and when you would go away (to another city for example) it won't come with you...

2- which are those 8 different ways that humans learn in?

If you are opreing up a new dojo presumably you will still be under the same organisation as your existing dojo where you will still be training? I am planning the same future (2 years away yet min) and the only advice I can offer is to train on another night so those in the existing dojo can come and support your new dojo and get you going - once you feel confident ask your Sensei if you can lead the class and they take a step back so that a) the class you hope will support you get used to you as a trainer rather than just assistant and b) you get used to it - it ain't the same!

I too would like to understand more of the 8 ways of learning if you please

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Originally Posted by elsabra

do you think that taking some basic courses in economics will be enough for running the dojo business, or should i actually study economics for a B.A?

p.s. - i'm sure that running my own dojo worth all the effort

Firstly, this is a great thread. Superb advice from Spirit & Seienchin. I agree wholeheartedly with everything that's been said.

Regarding study, that's a tough call because I have a business degree so no doubt I take for granted a lot of what I learned from that but I've also read a lot of great business books & I think you can learn what you need (and save years & $$$) by studying topical books. The E-Myth is a good one to start with. It points out that just because you love making pies, you may not love owning a pie shop! It will make you think about all the stuff that's involved in operating a business so you can self evaluate & decide if you are likely to succeed & enjoy it. Although his books are real cheesy I also recommend books by Brad Sugars. I can't remember what title it is (he has loads) but one will introduce you to a simple calculation for profit that I wish I'd learned at Uni (instead of years later in a $29 book!). It's the concept of leads x conversion rate = customers.... customers x value of transactions x number of transactions = gross income. Gross income - expenses = eat or don't eat. If you can manage (maximise) the items in red & minimise the purple you have a hope. I like this calc because running a dojo can be overwhelming but this calc (balanced with your vision) objectifies your decisions. Best of luck. You won't know until you try. I'm back in a job after 11 years self employed & I have to say... I seriously rate self employment & will be heading back there as soon as is practical. There will not be a single day you don't want to leap out of bed & go to work.

[Spirit]

aunty excellent stuff!!!

more info or let's say personal believes...
If your are hoping to someday open a dojo the training you need from the dojo is this.
You should have at least 2 years of teaching your own classes (full classes no help from other) at the dojo in all age groups. I would suggest more like 5 to 8 years but everyone is in a rush to open.

Look through this webs site there you will find business plans, profit and lose and break even work sheets.
You will be very surprised at the profit and lose as well break even once completed with true numbers...
Today's economy (based on your country) is very difficult on and leasing for any business is hard, you need lawyers and CPA's as well insurance and marketing plans just to open up. without the public knowing you are their or open you can meet your burden to pay your rent no matter how small.

The assumed rate of student retention in any karate dojo is 60% drop out rate the first MONTH. So if you need 30 students to keep the doors open you need to bring in 12 new students EVERY MONTH just to float.

To make profit you'll need to bring in 15 - 20 new students a month!!!

Also not always is the best fighter, or kata person or the greatest skilled the best teacher.
Teaching takes other skills above and beyond the technical skills of karate.

I personally know of many teachers in all different styles that are limited in skill and far exceed those with great skills when it comes to running a dojo of all levels (mcdojo to strong traditional)

[Spirit]

Oh yes,
Don't give up on your dream
But do plan to do it right

[elsabra]

do you think that going trainning in japan will help me in the future to run my own dojo or is it better to stay here (Israel) and learn how to run the bussines???

i'm sure i'll train in japan in the future, but what's better right now? to be focused on the goal of having my own dojo, or perfecting my skills and art?

[elsabra]

osu dear Aunty...

can you please tell me who is the author of that E-Myth? can i find that book on the internet?

[elsabra]

at least 12 new students each month??? how do you do that?

all the dojos i know, here in Israel, aren't even close to those numbers... so how do you do that???

[Tom Kupa]

Osu to the person who asked this question,

i have this dream of running my own dojo and just train and teach all day long
but i have a lot of questions, so if anyone can help here a little bit it will be great...
1- how do you start? i don't have any money to buy \ rent a place
If you aren't training with anyone at the moment what is your current grade and what is your knowledge base. Money isn't always essential to start if you have somewhere at home where you can train. Renting is good but you need to have somewhere that won't disrupt the consistency of your trainings. Renting or leasing will come in as you grow.
2- will it be smarter to start from teaching in other dojos?
If the chief instructor is on side and knows what your dream is this could be a relationship made in heaven.
3- is it possible to earn enough money so you wouldn't have to work in another job from teaching?
Yes it is possible but you need to know a little about running a business because now your business is Martial Arts. I belong to a billing company who tell me how to build and suggest strongly any changes that need to be made to build. We went from 20 eight years ago to 140 members. This is probably due to our passion or love for martial arts and the people in it and yet to come.
4- what is better - to have your own dojo or to teach in different places?

To have your own place. Which is just my opinion that is reinforced once you have this opportunity.

[Aunty Ichigeki]

Osu Elsabra, the author is Michael Gerber but I suggest you learn to Google EVERYTHING. It's a great way to find out what you don't know. I Googled "E-Myth" & a load of websites popped up... you may not even need to buy the book to get the message!

PS. if you have the opportunity to go to Japan, do that while you are young. It's a great experience, the dojo there will inspire you & as well as the personal gains, you'll gain much needed credibility.

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by elsabra

do you think that going trainning in japan will help me in the future to run my own dojo or is it better to stay here (Israel) and learn how to run the bussines???

I'm sure i'll train in japan in the future, but what's better right now? to be focused on the goal of having my own dojo, or perfecting my skills and art?

going to Japan will only help you not how to run a dojo in your country....
Knowledge is power though.

In your country things run much differently than in America way differently.

Today Karate is not an art but a business selling the perception of an art.
This is more prevalent in countries like UK, France, Italy, Canada, USA, Aussie etc.

You'll need to do more research within your country than ask hear on the forum, we can only give info based on our business concepts of our counties we live in.
Take the time to talk to as many dojo owners as you can, tourney are a great place to do this.
Talk to everyone, not just your style, Karate is Karate and you need to understand the business end not the style end.

[oreyes]

There is no money in "real" karate. This is what my old sensei taught me.

[jcbel]

I don't think you can avoid money completely in today's world - back in the old days students would work for their Karate training if I am not mistaken.

And I'm sure most people here on the forum would not charge anything for training if it weren't for expenses such as building rental, electricity, grading fees from Japan, etc.

So unless we can go live in a self-contained village somewhere and train in a hut (preferably during summer!) I very much doubt we can take money out of the equation...

[jcbel]

Originally Posted by Spirit

I've seen (and been part off) many Sensei student fights or end of friendships over the opening of dojo.

Yes Spirit is very right about this - I know of one instance where someone wanted to branch out and open their own dojo but his instructor did not like this idea at all and tried to expel him from Kyokushin!

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by jcbel

I don't think you can avoid money completely in today's world - back in the old days students would work for their Karate training if I am not mistaken....

In fact, I did just that until I was shodan (at shodan we didn't pay dues)
I worked the dog kennel that Sensei had under the dojo, painted the dojo and did or help do carpentry work in the dojo and Sensei's house etc to pay my dues.

Reality is, a Dojo owner must wear 2 hats, the first being a business hat. Without this hat the dojo can't live (in most countries) do to operational costs.

We (traditional Dojo's) have lived through (in the USA) Bruce Lee , Kung Fu TV show, Aerobics, Gyms, Mcdojo's, Jujitsu, and now MMA...

All have their purpose and serve the public as each person finds their own way. Even if we do not see the way the are teaching as correct. Their is more than 1 way to manufacture a car and sell it as their is more than one way to teach Karate...
If you focus on you and let go everyone else, you may find that you have more time and energy as well more students?!? Just a word of wisdom..... seen to many Good dojo's fight it out for students and both loose, when their was more students available than both could have handled. Had each focused on themselves not each other!!!

This is seen in our history as many Karate dojo's tried to blend Karate and Kung Fu during the peek years and it was a messy time (for those who lived during it you can remember)

I think that what I can say about dojo operations is this.
Structure, have everything in place and work it as closely as you can to it. Know exactly what your goals are 1 year in advance, and work hard to keep everyone and every thing in place.
Only change when something is not working and change it without talking about it.As well already have it worked out (train with your assistance on it during off nights before putting it into play)
Look at being the Sensei as being the owner of a company (as it really is this) You profit line is how well you can teach every student and get knowledge into each one of them (both technical and history)

[meguro]

Originally Posted by oreyes

There is no money in "real" karate. This is what my old sensei taught me.

OTOH, "you get what you pay for", and "value is determined by how much someone is willing to pay", are aphorisms that might also be applied to the business of karate.

I think that "real" karate instructors must starve or give their "real" karate away is a myth that should be discarded. Real karate instructors should be able to charge whatever it costs to cover expenses and make a living. As Spirit explains, you must be a businessman/woman as well as a karateman/woman. A karate instructor with no business sense is soon out of work. That is the harsh reality.

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by meguro

OTOH, "you get what you pay for", and "value is determined by how much someone is willing to pay", are aphorisms that might also be applied to the business of karate.

I think that "real" karate instructors must starve or give their "real" karate away is a myth that should be discarded. Real karate instructors should be able to charge whatever it costs to cover expenses and make a living. As Spirit explains, you must be a businessman/woman as well as a karateman/woman. A karate instructor with no business sense is soon out of work. That is the harsh reality.

I would have to AGREE...
Look at all the very successful dojo's in Okinawa, Japan, UK, Aussie, NZ, Germany, USA etc, that are traditional and are really successful and real instructors.

Look at all the Kyokushin, Enshin, Seido, and all the other hard training styles all over the world that are full of students and creating a good living for the owner.

Your country maybe a part of how complete you can make your dream come true... but structure is the key, like any business. You must know how to run it, how to bring in continues business, how to be profitable, how to interact with people, how to maximize your dollars (sales of equipment, dues, testing, camps events etc are all part of dojo operations) and know what you are selling inside and out (PS your not selling Karate, you are selling membership into your dojo)

I realize that most "Hate" the idea that Karate is a business, yet look at all the profits all the major Karate Organizations have made or are making know...
Oyama made Millions and Millions of dollars, selling B/C, Certs, Equipment, Books all will teaching great Karate...
So has Goju, Shotokan, Shorin Ryu the list goes on and on.

If you stop an look at what the history of Karate business has been you will see that no matter who or what style, money and profits was, is or hope to be the driving force behind the Excellent training, great Shihan's, and tournements...

Improve the world or at least your part of it, by being a great teacher and businessman/woman. Don't short yourself and those you could impact, by being short sided and look at Karate operations as one sided or one dimentional...

Yin is nothing without Yang!!!

[meguro]

Spirit, you misread what I said. I was agreeing with your previous post. I wrote

"I think that "real" karate instructors must starve or give their "real" karate away is a myth that should be discarded. Real karate instructors should be able to charge whatever it costs to cover expenses and make a living. As Spirit explains, you must be a businessman/woman as well as a karateman/woman."

[Spirit]